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Dok/wp gear issue

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Rockalypse
Database Developer
Posts: 330

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#31 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:31 am

Grunbag wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:29 am
What would be better to test ? AP regen on block or ressource gain in block ?
Well, my answer you already know AP it is.

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Grunbag
Project Team
Posts: 1743

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#32 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:55 am

what are average Block% for a WP/DoK actually?
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Rydiak
Posts: 360

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#33 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:09 am

~12%

And if you folks are trying to push a hybrid build with Invader then I would suggest class resource on block.
Rydiak/WP/84 - "That Grace WP"

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DirkDaring
Posts: 285

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#34 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:20 am

Unstoppable1776 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:59 am
With the recent changes to dok/wp shield changes only makes the gear more undesirable. Before a dok had a 50% chance that the gear would be relavant, now it's a 33% chance. Before it was heal or dps now it's heal, dps or melee heals. The big difference is the melee heals has block making it irrelevant for other specs.

I heard rumors that the dok/WP gear had block on it. Sentinel gear is the new gear set and it's for melee heals. Now that spec gets another set?
Gunbad is heal with some stat mix
Onslaught is heal
Anni is heal
Conq is heal
Vanquisher is heal
Beastlord is a mix
Merc is dps
Dom is dps
Oppreasor is dps
Sentinel is mheal
Invader mheal?

There are plenty of options for healing. Technically 6 if you group all healing types but only 3 dps(2 of them endgame)

I suggest removing block from the mheals so they can be more inclusive for dps in general


Thats because all the old sets from live were changed , back on live , several of the Sets from RvR had strength on them, or stats other than pure heal sets, this goes for tanks sets as well ,

Link to the old sets from live

https://thesteelbrand.wordpress.com/201 ... er-online/



Devastor set WP

2 Piece Bonus): +47 Strength

(3 Piece Bonus): +240 Corporeal Resistance

(4 Piece Bonus): +5 Melee Critical Chance

(5 Piece Bonus): Mending – On Being Hit: 10% chance to recover X health

Devastor KOBS

(2 Piece Bonus): +47 Strength

(3 Piece Bonus): +240 Corporeal Resistance

(4 Piece Bonus): +46 Wounds

(5 Piece Bonus): Aggravation – On Hit: 10% chance to Taunt target.

Conq Set WP

(2 Piece Bonus): +66 Strength

(3 Piece Bonus): +66 Willpower

(4 Piece Bonus): +66 Wounds

(5 Piece Bonus): +5 Melee Critical Chance

(6 Piece Bonus): Vivacious – On Heal: 10% chance to recover 50 AP.

Conq Set Kobs

(2 Piece Bonus): +344 Corporeal Resistance

(3 Piece Bonus): +66 Strength

(4 Piece Bonus): +66 Wounds

(5 Piece Bonus): +5 Parry

(6 Piece Bonus): +5 AP Per Second

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#35 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:28 pm

Class resource on block is iffy because the whole idea of a melee healer is that he must be hitting (AP attacks) in order to heal (RF abilities) : using AP in order to generate RF, which can then be used to Sacrifice, Divine Assault, or Sigmar's Shield a friendly back to full life. If essence is given after blocking, then it will be dangerously close to overperforming: my WP has circa-30% block, which means I would be gaining essence at a very consistent rate via this proc, removing the need to use the fillers as much in order to generate the RF needed for our big boy abilities.

On the other hand, AP gain on block would mean that, whie you will still need to be in the mix using your melee abilities in order to heal, you stay in there for longer/generate more RF in drawn-out fights, and would help alleviate some of the AP issues a melee healer may experience.

My 2 cents.
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Rydiak
Posts: 360

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#36 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:09 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:28 pm
Class resource on block is iffy because the whole idea of a melee healer is that he must be hitting (AP attacks) in order to heal (RF abilities) : using AP in order to generate RF, which can then be used to Sacrifice, Divine Assault, or Sigmar's Shield a friendly back to full life. If essence is given after blocking, then it will be dangerously close to overperforming: my WP has circa-30% block, which means I would be gaining essence at a very consistent rate via this proc, removing the need to use the fillers as much in order to generate the RF needed for our big boy abilities.

On the other hand, AP gain on block would mean that, whie you will still need to be in the mix using your melee abilities in order to heal, you stay in there for longer/generate more RF in drawn-out fights, and would help alleviate some of the AP issues a melee healer may experience.

My 2 cents.
Good break-down, thanks Peter. I actually switched to Divine Replenishment M2 on my WP, and it has basically made AP a non-issue for me in extended fights, so I highly recommend trying that M2 for any melee healers that are having AP issues.
Rydiak/WP/84 - "That Grace WP"

Interested in Grace, but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!

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Updated 08/07/20 for new Toughness changes
Bonus RoR Calculations Sheet

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#37 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:35 pm

Rydiak wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:09 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:28 pm
Class resource on block is iffy because the whole idea of a melee healer is that he must be hitting (AP attacks) in order to heal (RF abilities) : using AP in order to generate RF, which can then be used to Sacrifice, Divine Assault, or Sigmar's Shield a friendly back to full life. If essence is given after blocking, then it will be dangerously close to overperforming: my WP has circa-30% block, which means I would be gaining essence at a very consistent rate via this proc, removing the need to use the fillers as much in order to generate the RF needed for our big boy abilities.

On the other hand, AP gain on block would mean that, whie you will still need to be in the mix using your melee abilities in order to heal, you stay in there for longer/generate more RF in drawn-out fights, and would help alleviate some of the AP issues a melee healer may experience.

My 2 cents.
Good break-down, thanks Peter. I actually switched to Divine Replenishment M2 on my WP, and it has basically made AP a non-issue for me in extended fights, so I highly recommend trying that M2 for any melee healers that are having AP issues.
It's a good M2, for sure, but I can't honestly envision a situation in which I would ever drop Focused Mind, and would instead prefer to alleviate AP issues via group composition/sexy procs :lol:
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Unstoppable1776
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Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#38 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:46 pm

I really just want to see some of these sets change. The specs are too complex
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Snoxx
Posts: 83

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#39 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:49 pm

Rockalypse wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:21 am
My 5 cents on matter - melee healing is not strugling with resources from my perspective. You have essence lash, you have all lifetaps regenerating you ressource, you even have tactic to regain ressource if you are hit.
What melee healing lacks - is AP. As sad as it is you have to mash lifetaps by CD to have decent lifetap heal, yes you can time it, yes you can get AP regen gear, but in the end as melee healing is very AP reliant sooner or later you will find yourself in the middle of the fight with no AP and double AP pot on cooldown and than you are dead weight to group. Either set bonus or tactic with AP regen could have solved it all (looking at you, Invader tank set bonus).
My problem with the resource management in buckler-meleeheal spec:

WP/DoK got two new abilities that both drain a full resource pool (the "Sacrifice"-groupheal and the "hold-the-line" ability), but we got no additional resource-generation.

In the old grace/sacrifice melee heal spec, resource-generation vs. resource-usage was balanced. Now its completely off the rails. It's not a simple question of having enough AP, the problem is there are too many resource-draining skills now.

Before you try to fix this via boosting AP regen, why not lower or remove the RF/SE cost on the Sacrifice-heal and the Hold-the-line ability? How about making HTL using AP instead of RF/SE. And Sacrifice should only cost your hitpoints (maybe a small amount of AP but no RF/SE at all).

Sorry for posting build/spec balancing stuff in a gear issue thread, but I have the feeling the Devs try to fix a non-functional spec by adding new gear for that spec and hoping it will somehow become viable.

Rockalypse wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:21 am
On subject of sets overall - it was already said - I feel that making universal sets that can fit both DPS and Melee heal spec would have been better idea. Like Sentinel, with exception of block bonus on helmet and on one of set bonuses could be a solid DPS set for surviving longer.
A solution could be to put the role-specific stuff (like block% or meleecrit%) on the late set bonuses,
and the useful-for-everyone on the early set bonuses.


This way, the specific melee-heal sets can be useful for a dps-spec as well, if you mix sets (as most do anyway).

Same could be done with the stats on the items itself. Only a few of them (like 2 or 3 items) should have role-specific stuff (e.g. block%) so when you mix sets you simply pick the items that fit your spec and be happy with it.

Snoxx
Posts: 83

Re: Dok/wp gear issue

Post#40 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:46 pm

shameless self-quote, but ...
Snoxx wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:49 pm
A solution could be to put the role-specific stuff (like block% or meleecrit%) on the late set bonuses,
and the useful-for-everyone on the early set bonuses.


This way, the specific melee-heal sets can be useful for a dps-spec as well, if you mix sets (as most do anyway).

Same could be done with the stats on the items itself. Only a few of them (like 2 or 3 items) should have role-specific stuff (e.g. block%) so when you mix sets you simply pick the items that fit your spec and be happy with it.
... patch from today did exactly what I suggested two days ago. :)

The (previously useless) WP/DoK Beastlord set is now a perfect example how itemization should be:

Most items and the early set bonuses are now useful for all melee specs. Only the late set bonuses (5pc and 6pc somewhat) are specific for 1h+buckler melee heal build. Only one armor piece has a build-specific stat on it (breast has 3% block).

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