Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

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Manatikik
Posts: 1174

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#41 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:12 pm

DanielWinner wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:04 pm
Manatikik wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:28 pm
Wait. Do people actually think SH is better than SW besides solo kiting and Melee Squig WB spec?

Really feels like the SW’s posting in this thread either don’t understand the class and it’s place in a group or just want to change what that is to mirror BW. SW is currently excelling in small man play and is garbage in WB (granted every order dps besides BW and slayer and garbage in WB).

SW is not a primary DPS class, plain and simple. It’s a secondary DPS and it excels at that job.
I would not bring range SW to any small scale group nowadays. I tried it and got just bitched by mara+SH (rSH > rSW was proven many times and it’s still the same). I learnt my lesson so should others. Other day my group also killed Kajtarn group with him on range SW so if even best SWs of this server can’t make it work, I doubt it worth any time. Only melee spec is decent enough.

Range builds are good for solo kill steals. Don’t even join WB, you will just take someone’s spot.
For a small scale RvR group, I’d better pick WL and BW.
Ran the old school slayer and skirm the other day and won a few CW’s against a WE/SH group and WE/Melee DoK. Not saying it’s better than ASW but it’s not the worst thing in the world. And in ORvR it still works great esp with a rdps comp.

Not saying you’ll out dps a BW wl or slayer but you aren’t necessarily a wet noodle.
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footpatrol2
Posts: 1075

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#42 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:21 pm

So I really think what hurt the class in a big way was making the ranged knockdown specific to the skirmish spec. This is a RoR change. Previously on AoR, the ranged knockdown was available to the SW in any spec. In my opinion, the placement of range knockdown high in skirmish spec has hurt scout spec dramatically and hurt the assault spec a little. Much love has been given to the assault spec to compensate for it's (anytime loss) of Rkd but not for scout.

I really want to run a 4 shadow warrior scout sniper group comp. I don't really see it worthwhile with the loss of the rkd. I used to run a similar group comp of 4 big shootin SH's which I feel the SW's would operate roughly the same but with unique differences. The SH group comp is a lot of fun and it would be interesting to see and play the differences. But without the rkd for scout it really doesn't seem worth it or interesting to try.

Fenris78
Posts: 158

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#43 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:04 am

footpatrol2 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:21 pm
So I really think what hurt the class in a big way was making the ranged knockdown specific to the skirmish spec. This is a RoR change. Previously on AoR, the ranged knockdown was available to the SW in any spec. In my opinion, the placement of range knockdown high in skirmish spec has hurt scout spec dramatically and hurt the assault spec a little. Much love has been given to the assault spec to compensate for it's (anytime loss) of Rkd but not for scout.

I really want to run a 4 shadow warrior scout sniper group comp. I don't really see it worthwhile with the loss of the rkd. I used to run a similar group comp of 4 big shootin SH's which I feel the SW's would operate roughly the same but with unique differences. The SH group comp is a lot of fun and it would be interesting to see and play the differences. But without the rkd for scout it really doesn't seem worth it or interesting to try.
You may be right, didnt played on Live, but adding the fact that you cant get scout + Snare Arrow (either range limited to 72ft, OR being limited in mastery points to spec into viable scout, OR viable with +skirmish range but no kd), resulting in staying still AND letting your target fleeing away, thus negating nearly all you abilities to be cast on them.

Basically you lack the tool(s) to use efficient scout at optimum range without skirmish skills.

We can also suggest lowering kd arrow in mastery tree, maybe switch the skill position with Barrage (along with restoring snare on Barrage, a ranged AoE snare is powerful and could justify investing full skirmish) ?
Hop, you got ranged kd useable with Scout spec, you can finally get your target stand still the time needed to land ONE Festering Arrow into his/her head.
Range problem (partially) solved. You still are a sitting duck, but at least you can hope doing some damage in the meanwhile. :p
Last edited by Fenris78 on Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#44 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:01 am

The mechanic to make SW better is already in the game. Make vengeful do more stuff. Kind of lame that all it does now is take a look away the pos req for brutal assault.

Maybe have it do something based on what stance you are in. Or at least give it back the KD with takedown.

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1075

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#45 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:29 am

At one point in AoR the way the ranged knockdown worked was the shadow warrior had to pop vengeance then the ability Takedown (the ranged Snare) which triggered the knockdown. Hence why the ability is even named Takedown.

The old range knockdown was not tied to Eye Shot.

It would be cool to see the Rkd return to this.

Some SW abilities would take on different effects when the shadow warrior was under the effect of vengeance. Some of those old mechanic's were pretty coolio.

Kitsumy
Posts: 11

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#46 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:24 am

Yes spiral arrow should do like 30% more dmg. And the penalty on area tactic removed for sure if we are allready losing a tactic for that. Right now we need to cast for 1 sec only to do the same dmg than 1 tick of an instacast mage/ inge dot....

Scout should get higher range. Why should mages/inge have longer range when they are tankier? . Buff armor debuff to WL levels. And sligthy buffs in eagle shot dmg. Like 15% dmg.


I dont care about melee since none do an archer to play it as a rogue.


Right now sw are totally useless and i always ignore them when im in other chars since any other class are more dangerous.

jasonX
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Posts: 178

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#47 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:52 am

Kitsumy wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:24 am
Yes spiral arrow should do like 30% more dmg. And the penalty on area tactic removed for sure if we are allready losing a tactic for that. Right now we need to cast for 1 sec only to do the same dmg than 1 tick of an instacast mage/ inge dot....

Scout should get higher range. Why should mages/inge have longer range when they are tankier? . Buff armor debuff to WL levels. And sligthy buffs in eagle shot dmg. Like 15% dmg.
Spiral arrow is commonly acknowledged as a really low dps spell. I agree 100% with you that its tool tip damage should be boosted. Moreover I have updated the suggestions section with removing or reducing the Split Arrow tactic penalty.

I do agree that scout is supposed to be a sniper build and having such a low range compared to Magus-Engineer is really imbalanced. I am tired of maguses dpsing me all the time on Keep defences and me not being able to even reach them. Plus maguses do non physical damage and the amount of mitigation they take is really low. Thats why I proposed to return back to the original tactic that made all scout attacks corporeal dmg. The increased range is also a solid proposal, scout should give more range to meet magus-engineer range. There is no sense from the gameplay balance side to Role Play side for an elven archer to have less range than a mage and a dwarven techie.

I have further updated the suggestions section.
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Gitbaner 77RR Chosen, tankier version of Gitbane
Gitbaneous 80RR sorc, heavy and tanky bomber mode.
Ethilia 84RR SW (too much nerf, RIP :()
Gitbaneus 81rr BW
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drmordread
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Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#48 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:35 am

For the OP. Well said ... very well said. Thank you. But I doubt the SW will get any love out the Devs. The first comment made on this thread is all you need to read to know the furor, rage, uproar, and foot stomping anger that any destro player will throw up. If I was a dev, I wouldn't even want to deal with it either.

One other note, last group in wb without guards and heals is for WH. :)
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Wdova
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Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#49 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:50 am

This discussion make me to roll SW just to find out how bad it actualy is.... To bad I need to gear my SM and SL first :D
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Ugle
Posts: 523

Re: Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

Post#50 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:55 am

jasonX wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:24 pm
Ugle wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:53 pm
I agree scout is useless outside perfect situation (scenario with your team controlling the battle, i.e dominating, where you can spam your turret style abilities).

I also agree that skirm spec dmg is lacking, even sustained dmg, which the spec seems designed around.

Assault on the other hand synergises well with both WL, WH and even BW, (SS in, unload considerable burst).

Apart from that your analysis is faulty imho. Mobility synergy with WL is good, combined burst of WH/WL/BW and ASW is good, rkd in skirm is good for disabling healers etc, spammable heal debuff is good.

Seems you want to kill guarded, healed targets on your own, which imo you should not be able to.
Well first you say that 2 out of 3 specs are non viable.... and then that the class is really ok and I just want to kill guarded targets. Man :) you confuse me.
To be fair, I'm saying one spec is not viable, and that is scout/skirm - scout/assault.

Skirm/assault and assault/skirm is viable, where the latter is the best. You seem to forget you have the range advantage vs melee, which means you can soften up the target before finishing it as the class is designed.

Vs casters you are on the other end of the rope, and should approch accordingly.

That said, I agree that SFA could be buffed somewhat, (maybe 10%), and split arrows need the dmg reduction removed.

As for scout, there is little to be done about mobility issues without invalidating skirm spec imo.

And ofc wb viability is low, but not all classes can exel in all situations.
Ugle - SW | Amoebas - AM | Amoeba - SM
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