Return of Reckoning

JustDust wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:46 am Yep the only reason ranged sw seems viable, is cause they see us hitting low geared targets, and doing some normal damage. Let us see how sw performs against ppl with full invader + armor pots.
And the solution for us stacking WS only isnt really worth it, we cant survive anything doing that, and still hitting less then other dps stacking defensive talismans.

If sw was the only class with a healdebuff, that might have warranted the low single target dmg output of our skirmish specc, but still got us a spot in 6vs6 at least. But that isn't the case.
Ranged KD, yes it is nice, but what the hell ranged stagger from healers is even better. It doesnt warrant the low ST output values of ranged sw, and our horrible tactics, compared to other dpsclasses tactics. Cause other classes have good group utility too and bring the damage.

Stance dance is so clunky and unresponsive, and its still possible to accidently press the same stance and get a cd on all stance switches, which should never be the case, you shouldn't be able to switch to the stance your already in.

Our horrible Traveltimes of our skills adds to the insult.

Our Selfpunt is a joke, against melees with half a brain and equal gear you can never run. Best use of it is offensively to get into the fray faster as assault. The angle of the punt should be higher + 10 more ft or it is almost always useless as an escape tool against enemies who play smart.

Yes sw fits into some niche roles, but there are better alternatives in the dps department for 6 mans and for solo. Which is already destribed by Ethilia.

On rare occasions you own the scenario charts, but these statistics doesn't say anything. Its mostly due to the fact of undergeared enemies, which always favors ranged dps classes. The best Measure is the 6v6 with equal geared players which happens rarely.

Jeyne RR81 SW

+1000 to all your points Jeyne! Amen!

Stop +1ing every 2nd post

shaggyboomboom wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:02 am Stop +1ing every 2nd post

+1 to shaggy’s excellent point!

shaggyboomboom wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:02 am Stop +1ing every 2nd post

+1. thats a third post. is that ok?

jasonX wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:52 am +1. thats a third post. is that ok?

No

Added a 3rd spec for scout on the initial post. I have been trying it for over a week now and it seems quite viable on dmg output.

As it seems mainly the Skirmish Tree is the only one that needs a damage boost.

jasonX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:17 pm

Collateral wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:41 pm In case devs decide to buff lileath arrow, I just want to mention something people seemed to forget. And that's the amazing synergy with LA, ES and pierce defenses (unless sonething changed here that I'm not aware of). It's clear that sw has been nerfed to the ground in warband sense, just like sh. It would be great to see other classes present in wbs other than bw and sorc (with occasional slayer/engi and mara/choppa). But it's not like sw brings absolutely nothing to wb, even with the amount of nerfs it got. Just my little info.

pierce defences doesnt proc on LA. only for your main target

Please don't spread false information, because of that reply I highly discrediting most of your suggestion...

I can agree that only viable spec atm is ASW for 6man. It received so much love that i cannot even imagine...

Scout FA bomb got reverted BUT it has some shadow nerf behind it, its not same FA Bypass resistances that it was previously.
Scout should be long range casting burst dmg but its far from that, you have casting but there is no dmg behind it.
And please for the sake don't try compare ScoutSW to Magus or Engineer... it's totally different classes i can't see why people even thinking about giving SW same range... but true is that there is no proper or similar burst even with less range...

Skirmish should be RvR/WB spec because of LA and AoE tactics. Well, with 180 degree cone bug it was very viable RvR but since it's gone it's back to trash can. Sure you can use SW as PD debuffer (cuz it does proc - tested it just now and have vid if anyone still dont believe...) but not sure if its worth enough compared to RAW dmg BW provide. Spamming LA on enemy Backline is strong (with proper stats and gear easy to make 1k+ hits), but to reach full potential, where you want either make use of ExpertSkirmisher tactic or slot FocusMind so you are not dependent on it, is extremely hard to make it work in comparission to what other classes can do much much much easier...

13pt RKD is what ever, i was discussing long time ago with Dansari why its 13pt and he said, cuz RKD is too strong to be lower with which i can agree to some degree. It doesn't bother me that much like some useless stuff in masteries like Keen Arrowheads, no one cares about this tactic no one uses it, same thing with SPA AoE tactic, sure -30% dmg i simply too much, -30% dmg component should be removed instead either increase AP cost or cast time.

About Powerful Draft this tactic obviously should affect LA aswell i see no reason not too... It's already extremely hard to hit/reach anything with it w/o putting yourself in danger.

Also Expert Skirmisher should proc if ANY enemy is near you, w/o forcing you to target it, but dunno if thats possible to do.

Overall, main problem i see on SW is that you need/want to use so many tactics but you are limited to 4 so you cant provide enough to be worth slot in WB...

Xergon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:28 am

jasonX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:17 pm

Collateral wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:41 pm In case devs decide to buff lileath arrow, I just want to mention something people seemed to forget. And that's the amazing synergy with LA, ES and pierce defenses (unless sonething changed here that I'm not aware of). It's clear that sw has been nerfed to the ground in warband sense, just like sh. It would be great to see other classes present in wbs other than bw and sorc (with occasional slayer/engi and mara/choppa). But it's not like sw brings absolutely nothing to wb, even with the amount of nerfs it got. Just my little info.

pierce defences doesnt proc on LA. only for your main target

Spoiler:

Please don't spread false information, because of that reply I highly discrediting most of your suggestion...

I can agree that only viable spec atm is ASW for 6man. It received so much love that i cannot even imagine...

Scout FA bomb got reverted BUT it has some shadow nerf behind it, its not same FA Bypass resistances that it was previously.
Scout should be long range casting burst dmg but its far from that, you have casting but there is no dmg behind it.
And please for the sake don't try compare ScoutSW to Magus or Engineer... it's totally different classes i can't see why people even thinking about giving SW same range... but true is that there is no proper or similar burst even with less range...

Skirmish should be RvR/WB spec because of LA and AoE tactics. Well, with 180 degree cone bug it was very viable RvR but since it's gone it's back to trash can. Sure you can use SW as PD debuffer (cuz it does proc - tested it just now and have vid if anyone still dont believe...) but not sure if its worth enough compared to RAW dmg BW provide. Spamming LA on enemy Backline is strong (with proper stats and gear easy to make 1k+ hits), but to reach full potential, where you want either make use of ExpertSkirmisher tactic or slot FocusMind so you are not dependent on it, is extremely hard to make it work in comparission to what other classes can do much much much easier...

13pt RKD is what ever, i was discussing long time ago with Dansari why its 13pt and he said, cuz RKD is too strong to be lower with which i can agree to some degree. It doesn't bother me that much like some useless stuff in masteries like Keen Arrowheads, no one cares about this tactic no one uses it, same thing with SPA AoE tactic, sure -30% dmg i simply too much, -30% dmg component should be removed instead either increase AP cost or cast time.

About Powerful Draft this tactic obviously should affect LA aswell i see no reason not too... It's already extremely hard to hit/reach anything with it w/o putting yourself in danger.

Also Expert Skirmisher should proc if ANY enemy is near you, w/o forcing you to target it, but dunno if thats possible to do.

Overall, main problem i see on SW is that you need/want to use so many tactics but you are limited to 4 so you cant provide enough to be worth slot in WB...

Agreed, SW need at least 2 tactic slots JUST to make one spec barely viable :
- Skirmish = Powerful Draw + Instinctive Aim (since dmg against mitigation is too low)
- Scout = Enchanted arrows and/or No Quarter (because no burst if not slotted)
- Assault = No Respite + Merciless Soldier/Grim Slash

In the end, you got barely any space to slot the mandatory Instinctive Aim (for all specs), and if you want correct debuff, at least Pierce Defenses, leaving you without the +160 Balistic or Split Arrows (very useful in combo since you AoE debuff).

Was attacking keeps and fort today, shooting relentlessly in the backlines with Split Arrows + Pierce Defenses + Beastlord proc, got barely around 350-400 crit dmg against soft targets (more like 100-150 crit against tanks), and felt that didnt do ANY difference at any time of the assault (even combined with M3 explosive arrows).
Compared to BW AoE without LoS, picking a non-tank target through all obstruction everywhere is really painful, and damage output is so low I still wonder why I tried slamming my keyboard so hard during half an hour... :/

that -30% dmg isn't really neccessary on that tactic, after they removed our 100% dmg moral. I think its a relic from that time, like many other sw skills, balanced around that 100%, and not looked at it enough after removing it. That was the design around sw class, assist dps who can burst sometimes. right now sw is an assist dps with nothing else going for it. the slitghtly more utility we have is neglectable.

JustDust wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:20 pm that -30% dmg isn't really neccessary on that tactic, after they removed our 100% dmg moral. I think its a relic from that time, like many other sw skills, balanced around that 100%, and not looked at it enough after removing it. That was the design around sw class, assist dps who can burst sometimes. right now sw is an assist dps with nothing else going for it. the slitghtly more utility we have is neglectable.

"Assist DPS with nothing else going for it." Sums it up fe me.