Invader farming and the consequences

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Scrilian
Posts: 1562

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#61 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:51 am

That's actually a good thing, first few rr70+ on our servers were know as "running chests". :mrgreen:
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Aethilmar
Posts: 157

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#62 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:43 pm

Just wanted to add to this discussion with the following:

Even as I type this, Destro chat is about how, after routing Order in Chaos Wastes and making them log, we get them to come back on and take it and Black Crag so we can defend and get two forts.

If that does not convince you that the current system is effed up and creating the wrong type of game play incentives I do not know what will.

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Hargrim
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Posts: 2439

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#63 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:36 am

Aethilmar wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:43 pm
Just wanted to add to this discussion with the following:

Even as I type this, Destro chat is about how, after routing Order in Chaos Wastes and making them log, we get them to come back on and take it and Black Crag so we can defend and get two forts.

If that does not convince you that the current system is effed up and creating the wrong type of game play incentives I do not know what will.

So again, what is the good incentive?
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Warfare80
Posts: 220

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#64 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:31 am

Hargrim wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:36 am
Aethilmar wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:43 pm
Just wanted to add to this discussion with the following:

Even as I type this, Destro chat is about how, after routing Order in Chaos Wastes and making them log, we get them to come back on and take it and Black Crag so we can defend and get two forts.

If that does not convince you that the current system is effed up and creating the wrong type of game play incentives I do not know what will.

So again, what is the good incentive?
Could raise the amount invaders gained from forts,but add a 12h lockout or something like that.
On the other hand, this could divide the factions in unlocked and locked players. The regionchat could become a battlefield.
It is a very tricky question, and this "bad" behavior is not devs responsibility to fix, it is the playerbase responsibility.
The bottomline is, we all wanna enjoy the game. But when the farmingdemon finds its way into our grindinghearts, then its hard to resist :)
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Vaul
Posts: 261

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#65 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:49 am

I disagree this is player's responsibility. Of course we should all be hero's but truth is we are self interested creatures like all others on this planet.

Possible incentive would be to directly (perhaps entirely) tie Fort Defence rewards to contribution in the prior zone defence.
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Reesh
Posts: 641

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#66 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:08 am

Vaul wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:49 am
Possible incentive would be to directly (perhaps entirely) tie Fort Defence rewards to contribution in the prior zone defence.
That would require contribution system in forts in first place, kek.

Currently a fresh 40r wh can squeeze in last 5minutes of fort and grab a gold bag.

Kek.
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zak68
Posts: 234

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#67 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:29 am

Aethilmar wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:43 pm
...
If that does not convince you that the current system is effed up and creating the wrong type of game play incentives I do not know what will.
They could not care less.

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Nekkma
Posts: 378

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#68 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:32 am

Hargrim wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:36 am

So again, what is the good incentive?
The first thing to do is to stop assuming a "best world scenario" where all problems can be solved. Go for a "second-best world" solution, i.e. chose the lesser evil.

Remove, or reduce, defenders reward (loot, renown etc) and you risk having empty forts. Keep, or increase, defender rewards and you risk defenders throwing end zones. Giving invader from other activities you risk having completely empty forts as, and lets be honest here, the game play is not very good. You need to chose the lesser evil and if neither of those options are appealing then perhaps forts should be removed or reworked.
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1666

Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#69 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:59 am

Tried presenting my idea of "lesser invader medals" that can be earned from T4 RvR and when collecting enough of them, gaining minor extra Invader medal gain.

Currently best possible strategy for maximizing invader gain, is ofc to throw in the towel, do few kills, and let enemy push to fort - yay. Ignore defending, hope the enemy doesn't fail (known to happen) and everyone can join the zergtrains avoiding each other until fort starts.

the side effect is people not bothering much with t2 t3 and even midzone t4 fights. Only pre-fort zones lead to population surge and the invader hunting sharks smell the blood in the water. they are not gaming the system (I am one of them) - we have simply arrived to the conclusion that rest of zones don't really progress your char (full conq full vanq full genesis close to rr80 or above). so best possible tactic is to keep zerg train on course towards fort lord, whether defender of attacker.

how to alter the best possible game strategy;
-Invader crests/shards from normal RvR and "end zone" defending
-50 invader crests are converted into 5 invader medals via merchant
-1 keep lord kills earn 1 invader crest.
-T4 Gold bag earns 10 crests
-T4 purple bag earns 6 crests
-T4 blue bag earns 3 crests
-New Quest - capturing your last zone of defence before Fort zone, meaning killing enemy keep lord + locking it as a defensive victory, gives quest reward of 5 invader crests. each of 3 pairings on both sides offers same quests, so 3 for destro and 3 for order - turn in at capital at realm leader (Karl Franz, Tcharchicken and the stuntie guy etc), for heroic defence of "halting enemy invasion".

Obviously, this won't mean that everyone goes "ehh, I still want a fort", but rather it works a motivation to keep people playing even outside fort fights for earning invader, and it gives counter-carrot to "forfeit endzone" to get fort, even if the quest in question offers only 0.5 actual invader medals. Many will alter their behaviour, realizing for example that if 200 destro defend Black Crag, and only 96 get into Butchers Pass fort defence - now half or more of them come to conclusion their expected fort invader medal gain is close to 0 (no reservation) and realize that the quest offers expected gain of 0.5 instead, assuming they push enemy out of Black Crag.
(good luck doing "heroic halting of enemy invasion" quest 440 times to get full invader... that amount of grinding requirement should please even our developer team)

All of above rewards won't make Invader "super fast", considering the majority of medals for fastest gearing will be earned from forts - but still offering minor extra gain for RvR activities outside fort, going as far as giving carrots for people to abandon "lol let them cap zone so can get fort, pls stop defending guys" mentality.

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Telen
Posts: 2351
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Re: Invader farming and the consequences

Post#70 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:33 am

Medals should drop based on the rr of target like live.
Everything should be buyable with enough medals like live.
Gear bags should be a tier below for defenders.
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