[Feedback] Changes of morale

[Aurandilaz]

So please share what is the problematic combo/fotm/setup?

I'm sure you can muster up a few potential comps cough SH M4 cough Choppa/SL M4 cough WH M4 if you put your thinking cap on.

So you have multiple options, with multiple classes having access to potential M4 specs that make them into a juicy pick - whilst not really harming the cheese of ye old triple high elf trio, or not really hurting double Slayer comps, or not really threatening burst potential of WL anywya? Isn't it good if WH becomes a proper pick?
Maybe more M4 from 15pts will be balanced, and thus allow even more possible specs, for both 6man or 24man situations.
If previously all M4's were "once in a month" content that barely existed in game - but now is easier accessible for players, how can that be a bad thing? The alternative being the stupid slow old rates, where people just skipped all M4 specs outside of fort funnels, making it basically wasted game content.

[peterthepan3]

So please share what is the problematic combo/fotm/setup?

I'm sure you can muster up a few potential comps cough SH M4 cough Choppa/SL M4 cough WH M4 if you put your thinking cap on.

So you have multiple options, with multiple classes having access to potential M4 specs that make them into a juicy pick - whilst not really harming the cheese of ye old triple high elf trio, or not really hurting double Slayer comps, or not really threatening burst potential of WL anywya? Isn't it good if WH becomes a proper pick?
Maybe more M4 from 15pts will be balanced, and thus allow even more possible specs, for both 6man or 24man situations.
If previously all M4's were "once in a month" content that barely existed in game - but now is easier accessible for players, how can that be a bad thing? The alternative being the stupid slow old rates, where people just skipped all M4 specs outside of fort funnels, making it basically wasted game content.

1) WH was already a proper pick before this. Also, bringing a class only for an M4 is indicative of poor class design; if your only reason for bringing class X into a group is for a cheesy, OTT M4, then lel.

2) It actually reduces diversity: if you wish to contend, you will be forced to bring Shamans and AMs into your groups for pumps; your BOs and Chosens will be forced to use their pumps; your BO will be forced to use his morale drain ad nauseam; you will be forced to only seek out classes that have exploitative Morales, leaving classes with mediocre Morales in the dust (why bring anything other than SH/Choppa/SL/WH in current Morale cheese land?). Such things should be optional. Morale pumps (and Morales in general) should play a part in all parts of the game, but to the extent that they become the game? OTT.

3) It promotes turtle-till-you-morale-drop playstyle: with such a shortage of morale drains in smallscale, you can simply engage in combat, turtle it out, and wait for your respective M4s to bomb them simultaneously. This is completely devoid of skill, and I'd wager the majority of the smallscale scene are opposed to having Morales become the be-all, end-all of PvP outcomes, instead of the supportive role they have been playing up until last patch.

I dunno, maybe people who don't engage in a lot of smallscale will find it hard to empathise with the fact that, Morale setups not being the go-to is actually a good thing. Just my 2c, perhaps others will disagree. Have beaten this to death so will leave it there, but suffice it to say that current level of gain, in conjunction with the pumps, has reduced encounters to 'who can build and then dump their Morales quicker': it's boring to both play, and play against.

EDIT: I'll try and find a vid of a certain 6v6 featuring a certain guild vs Enigma, who did nothing but Morale boost their WH with 2 AMs for Excommunicate. Such riveting gameplay indeed!

[Tesq]

Guys i feel like you enjoy make me agree with ptp3.....stop pretend no one remember the 2x dok m2 , 2x tank m2/m4 we had on des in sc when we had moral with 36/s.

Was pretty dumb...

everything revolving around a bad balancee morale system like we have with values all wrong and ista nuke being better than channeling of the same rank its bad for the game till morales are part of a more consistent system they should not me THAT accessable especially in small scale.

[anarchypark]

Spoiler:

PvE is always good dummy test.
dungeons are too easy now.
aggro mistake? ignore it with m4.
failed mechanic? survive with m4.
you can almost sleep between morale charges.

i finally understand why ppl love morales so much.
it's easy mode. easy = boring. boring game is not good.

literally wat

M4 is up for 10 seconds, with 2 tanks you have 20 seconds. It leaves you open for 40 second of no morale support. Dungeons are easy if you know every mechanic, everyone in your party knows every mechanic, and you just systematically move from one mob to the next, with everyone knowing where to stand and what to hit or click.
You can do very fast city/BS runs despite tanks not even reaching M4's - assuming people play with brains active.

I really cannot understand people complaining about 25 m/s being fast when it was the natural 36 m/s for years on live and people just played with it. Enemy uses morale? Use your own to counter it. Enemy brings drain? Bring your own drains. Morales are still on a 60 sec CD - other 59 seconds of a minute long fight you will be still using other abilities.

Yes, Mara drain is easier to use than KOTB M4 Solar Flare drain, that is an issue which could be fixed by giving AoE WL 1-2 more tactics to make them slightly less tarded for WB use. BW/Sorc M2s + pumps were easy cheese in the past, remain cheese, and will be cheese for a while I guess assuming no balance regarding BW superiority over other Order classes in AoE output will be done.
Now the real cheese option would be a WB consisting of 4 BORK, 4 Shamans, 8 Maras, 4 WEs (remainder whatever) - something that might be the supreme cheese, but I guess we will also never see 4 Borks giving cd reducers to 4 shamans and 4 WE's so that 8 maras and 4 WE's can all launch M2 bomb in below 10 seconds at 65ft frontal cone 1200 x 12. In theory yes, in practice I really doubt anyone will run that. More likely is running 8 BWs with pumps and 4 AMs and then kiting around until all 8 reach Burning Head after 35-45 sec with AM help. Which really gimps your setup vs anything that has a chance to kill you during previous 45 seconds and requires good gameplay by the AM's who would need to be kiting and pumping somehow at same time.

do u pop m4 when u're full hp, everything was fine?
u pop m4 at failed mechanic to recover from mistakes.
that's what pve noobs do.
grp that knows every mechanics, they ignore it with morale. to reduce run time.
morales bypass mechanism, reducing contents.
reduced game to 6 skills. morales, pump and drain.
few other skills when u're bored.
that's GW2 or diablo. or dota.

[Bozzax]

I'm sure you can muster up a few potential comps cough SH M4 cough Choppa/SL M4 cough WH M4 if you put your thinking cap on.

So you have multiple options, with multiple classes having access to potential M4 specs that make them into a juicy pick - whilst not really harming the cheese of ye old triple high elf trio, or not really hurting double Slayer comps, or not really threatening burst potential of WL anywya? Isn't it good if WH becomes a proper pick?
Maybe more M4 from 15pts will be balanced, and thus allow even more possible specs, for both 6man or 24man situations.
If previously all M4's were "once in a month" content that barely existed in game - but now is easier accessible for players, how can that be a bad thing? The alternative being the stupid slow old rates, where people just skipped all M4 specs outside of fort funnels, making it basically wasted game content.

1) WH was already a proper pick before this. Also, bringing a class only for an M4 is indicative of poor class design; if your only reason for bringing class X into a group is for a cheesy, OTT M4, then lel.

2) It actually reduces diversity: if you wish to contend, you will be forced to bring Shamans and AMs into your groups for pumps; your BOs and Chosens will be forced to use their pumps; your BO will be forced to use his morale drain ad nauseam; you will be forced to only seek out classes that have exploitative Morales, leaving classes with mediocre Morales in the dust (why bring anything other than SH/Choppa/SL/WH in current Morale cheese land?). Such things should be optional. Morale pumps (and Morales in general) should play a part in all parts of the game, but to the extent that they become the game? OTT.

3) It promotes turtle-till-you-morale-drop playstyle: with such a shortage of morale drains in smallscale, you can simply engage in combat, turtle it out, and wait for your respective M4s to bomb them simultaneously. This is completely devoid of skill, and I'd wager the majority of the smallscale scene are opposed to having Morales become the be-all, end-all of PvP outcomes, instead of the supportive role they have been playing up until last patch.

I dunno, maybe people who don't engage in a lot of smallscale will find it hard to empathise with the fact that, Morale setups not being the go-to is actually a good thing. Just my 2c, perhaps others will disagree. Have beaten this to death so will leave it there, but suffice it to say that current level of gain, in conjunction with the pumps, has reduced encounters to 'who can build and then dump their Morales quicker': it's boring to both play, and play against.

EDIT: I'll try and find a vid of a certain 6v6 featuring a certain guild vs Enigma, who did nothing but Morale boost their WH with 2 AMs for Excommunicate. Such riveting gameplay indeed!

Agree nothing new there really.

Key take away
1. AM , shmy may be picked for a grp for pumps, good bad? New meta you dont like?
2. WH m4 is broken and a 60cd kill (tbh ONE M4 that is 100% broken smallscale (it is not the rates it is the morale ability) , change it mebbe?)
3.This is not new and yet noone hardly bothered bf. What has changed?

Oh and yes I think the game as whole benefit from higher rates. Not saying I dont care about 6v6 at all just that the other 99.93% of the game gains from higher rates.

[Natherul]

updated OP as base is now set to 20 with todays patch

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

PvE is always good dummy test.
dungeons are too easy now.
aggro mistake? ignore it with m4.
failed mechanic? survive with m4.
you can almost sleep between morale charges.

i finally understand why ppl love morales so much.
it's easy mode. easy = boring. boring game is not good.

literally wat

M4 is up for 10 seconds, with 2 tanks you have 20 seconds. It leaves you open for 40 second of no morale support. Dungeons are easy if you know every mechanic, everyone in your party knows every mechanic, and you just systematically move from one mob to the next, with everyone knowing where to stand and what to hit or click.
You can do very fast city/BS runs despite tanks not even reaching M4's - assuming people play with brains active.

I really cannot understand people complaining about 25 m/s being fast when it was the natural 36 m/s for years on live and people just played with it. Enemy uses morale? Use your own to counter it. Enemy brings drain? Bring your own drains. Morales are still on a 60 sec CD - other 59 seconds of a minute long fight you will be still using other abilities.

Yes, Mara drain is easier to use than KOTB M4 Solar Flare drain, that is an issue which could be fixed by giving AoE WL 1-2 more tactics to make them slightly less tarded for WB use. BW/Sorc M2s + pumps were easy cheese in the past, remain cheese, and will be cheese for a while I guess assuming no balance regarding BW superiority over other Order classes in AoE output will be done.
Now the real cheese option would be a WB consisting of 4 BORK, 4 Shamans, 8 Maras, 4 WEs (remainder whatever) - something that might be the supreme cheese, but I guess we will also never see 4 Borks giving cd reducers to 4 shamans and 4 WE's so that 8 maras and 4 WE's can all launch M2 bomb in below 10 seconds at 65ft frontal cone 1200 x 12. In theory yes, in practice I really doubt anyone will run that. More likely is running 8 BWs with pumps and 4 AMs and then kiting around until all 8 reach Burning Head after 35-45 sec with AM help. Which really gimps your setup vs anything that has a chance to kill you during previous 45 seconds and requires good gameplay by the AM's who would need to be kiting and pumping somehow at same time.

do u pop m4 when u're full hp, everything was fine?
u pop m4 at failed mechanic to recover from mistakes.
that's what pve noobs do.
grp that knows every mechanics, they ignore it with morale. to reduce run time.
morales bypass mechanism, reducing contents.
reduced game to 6 skills. morales, pump and drain.
few other skills when u're bored.
that's GW2 or diablo. or dota.

Wasn't a problem on live making this a fallacy.
The main problem of Morales is due to individual morales and not the rate. This is a classic case of trying to cure a disease by hiding the symptoms.

[Tesq]

What roadk said

Currently for exemple we have raze in same spot of some other tank m3 which are istant instead.


There is no proportionality between a type of effect and dmg done for exemple

Ista m3 aoe do 600
Over time m3 do 900
Channeling (raze) do 1200

Etc we really need morales to be balance better in values first to adjust rate.

P.s: or stuff like cannon smash which is a basicalu m4 in place of a m3....

[Bozzax]

Morales are there for a reason

If you lower damage to much you make it impossible for smaller setup to bomb a larger force simply bc it cant stack enough damage

[Tesq]

Morales are there for a reason

If you lower damage to much you make it impossible for smaller setup to bomb a larger force simply bc it cant stack enough damage

I say make morales consistently not to lower dmg you can even increase dmg
a bit but ista dmg morale should do less dmg than a over time or channeling. Think wl m2 for exemple...etc... Duno how much this diff should be but it should be made.