[Feedback] Changes of morale

[roadkillrobin]

Morales are there for a reason

If you lower damage to much you make it impossible for smaller setup to bomb a larger force simply bc it cant stack enough damage

The AoE cap makes this a issue anyway.
I don't like the morale damage concept at all tbh. These Morales should be dps boosts and debuffs in varius different ways. I belive it's possible to implement such a mechanic and still have it be as impactful as straight up unmitgble Morale damage without people feel like they couldn't do anything to prevent it from happening.
Unshakeble Focus was a good example of this. All it needed was a tweaking so it only affected AoE attacks rather then just being straight up removed.

The one good thing morale damage does is that it ballance any equity issues by ignoring most gear and renown difference.

[Bozzax]

How are you going to break a solid funnel wo being able to pbaoe kill half a wb or so? Also as you point out being able to hit top tier groups with best gear?

[roadkillrobin]

How are you going to break a solid funnel wo being able to pbaoe kill half a wb or so? Also as you point out being able to hit top tier groups with best gear?

By doing the same thing. Stack Morale buffs to a point were you're either able to out dps them or be able to mitigate their dps by either Morale CC's or defensive morale buffs.

I'll make an example.
Solar Flare.
Fot the next 10 second all your group members attacks will deal an additional 400 elemental damage on every hit, as well as stripping away 36 points of morale from them.

[ztil]

I think you have a good point that buffs would be better than pure dps abilities, but you are drifting off topic Is there any feedback on how 20m/s is working out compared to 25m/s?

In theory it will mean m1 is reached after 18s and m2 after 36s without morale pump. Sounds a bit too long imho since many fights are shorter then that and it would be fun if morale abilities atleast m1/m2 was actually usable within the same fight and not just during those long drawn out sieges where everyone is constantly in combat. I would like to try 36m/s and I wish the evaluation period was longer than 1 week to really get some experience on how it’s working out. If that is not possible I at least wish there was feedback from more people than now. For example from more WB-leaders. There is only a handful of people writing in this thread and half of them are not discussing morale rate, the other half basing their arguments mostly on a stubborn principle or edge case scenarios. I realise I’m probably one of them. So it would be nice to just see some feedback based on real actual experience from running oRVR the last week and today compare to before the removal of Scalar. Is it feeding bomb warbands? Is it forcing all shamans and AM speccing morale pumps? I haven’t been able to play the game myelf this week since I’m away on vacation so that’s why I’m following this discussion closer than I normally would and I’m curious to hear what it’s like.

[peterthepan3]

M1 within 18 seconds is incredibly fast in smallscale, which is why there needs to be a distinction between largescale and smallscale in regards to Morale gains, as what may seem 'slow' in one is probably anything but in the other.

Will test the 20 M/S, but doubt situation will feel much different when used in conjunction with pumps.

[Collateral]

As it has been said, the diagnosis of the problem is wrong. You can mess around with gain rates all you want, but the core issue is that morale abilities themselves are not balanced.

Unmitigatable damage makes any game hard to balance, so it's no wonder that morales have been a problem throughout this games history, and are still a problem. Like mentioned, I think that buffs of all kinds are much easier to balance. Remember that morales stack with abilities and tactics, so there is a ton of stuff you can do. Think up alternatives to damage morales, then do a week or month of testing. You can do something like making your magic attacks impossible to disrupt, or buff st or aoe damage, etc. Wasn't there a thread for people to give their ideas for morales, what happened to that? It seems like everything falls on deaf ears. I really gotta give credit to tesq (and a number of other people), who hasn't given up all these years to make suggestions on all aspects of the game. I would certainly give up long ago.

[Grock]

M1 within 18 seconds is incredibly fast in smallscale, which is why there needs to be a distinction between largescale and smallscale in regards to Morale gains, as what may seem 'slow' in one is probably anything but in the other.

Will test the 20 M/S, but doubt situation will feel much different when used in conjunction with pumps.

Maybe changing morale "costs" is the answer to this?

I liked the new morale gains, being able to use M3 in smallscale situations and M4 outside of forts and huge sieges was a boon

[roadkillrobin]

People hitting M1 in 18 seconds was a constant on live and no one ever complained about it. Hardly any complaints about Morales was ever made after the 1001db and SC nerf were implemented. The complaints started with this project when staff incoperated the wrong morale gain and people noticed it yook ages to reach m4 when m4's got availible. And then instead of admiting they did wrong they doubled down, claimed it was due to ballance issue and when people pointed out that pumps and drains are based on a fixed vallue of the original morale gain, they trippled down and said the pumps were unballanced to.

[peterthepan3]

People hitting M1 in 18 seconds was a constant on live and no one ever complained about it.

Broken LOTD pocket items + OTT defensive sets made fights excruciatingly long anyway, so Morales merely augmented that. We don't have either of the above (and won't, hopefully), so the impact of almost on-demand Morales is much more obvious and pronounced.

I don't understand how it negates from points re fights being nothing but morale cheese btw. Live was not perfect by any means, and if we can rectify or improve upon some aspects of it - then we should; RoR has been doing this for some time already.

Standard of play & balance on Live compared to RoR was appalling btw, so I don't understand why we should look to Live as if it were some Utopia.

[roadkillrobin]

Pocket items didn't affect Morales and the Defensive set is a completly different issue not related to Morales at all.
If anything the offensive melee sets had a higher impact on Morales as they could drain with the 8 peice bonus ability, but hardy anyone used the offensive sets.
Morale rates existed before both the LOTD patch and the Rr80+ as well. Morale 1's were never an issue.