[Feedback] Changes of morale

[Acidic]

Sunday was a clear indication of what i mentioned earlier in the thread. With the 20 level moral gain and organised WB, there is no fighting its just clean up powered by massed M2 with pumps, no very interesting for any.
#MoralCheese

[ztil]

After trying out 20/s and playing around with morale pumps etc I have changed my mind about the changes to morale gain and I now agree with Fluf, Peter and others about 25 and even 20 being too high and 10/s being the better level.

Because as it is right now, with most if not all premade warbands running "bomb" setup, it becomes all about who reaches their damaging morale abilities first. With a current 20 morale/s m2 can be reached within 14 seconds with morale pumping from example with shaman or sorc/BW personal pump.

When the morale abilities are reached the fight is often over (provided that the warband manages to coordinate their morale bombs etc). These fights become short and repetetive since the single goal becomes to drop bombs before the other one does.

Best solution might be to reduce damage from morale abilities and/or remove them and reduce or remove morale pump tactics.

If that is not possible reduce morale gain to 10 morale/second. A drawback will be that morale pumping talents will become relatively stronger unless they are reduced also. At 10 m/s a shaman running double morale pump tactics will increase morale gain by 400% but since the time from engagement to m2, m3, m4 etc will be a bit longer overall it still would open up for more tactical possibilities. (Already at 20 morale/s morale pump will increase rate by 250%..). Perhaps morale pump tactics should be percentage based instead of static.

Spoiler:

Example 1
20/s Pump1 Pump2
m1 18 10 7 (because first 2 hits giving 150+150 in reality it's more like 4-5s to m1)
m2 36 20 14
m3 90 51 36
m4 180 102 72

Percentage increase with pump 1 = 70% faster morale gain compared to normal rate
Percentage increase with pump 2 = 250% faster morale gain compared to normal rate


Example 2
10/s Pump1 Pump2
m1 36 14 9
m2 72 28 18
m3 180 72 45
m4 360 144 90

Percentage increase with pump 1 = 250% faster morale gain compared to normal rate
Percentage increase with pump 2 = 400% faster


Example 3 Live
10/s Pump1 Pump2
m1 36 14 9
m2 72 28 18
m3 180 72 45
m4 360 144 90

Percentage increase with pump 1 = 42% faster morale gain compaed to normal rate
Percentage increase with pump 2 = 84% faster

[oaliaen]

Make a test whit nerfed M2 bombs, keep the 20 seconds.

[wachlarz]

Tanks bomb m2 moved to m3. Why sorc/bw bomb m2 is not moved to m3 ?

[Tesq]

Tanks bomb m2 moved to m3. Why sorc/bw bomb m2 is not moved to m3 ?

it's pointless move stuff around; we need a scaling consistency between morales:

aka channeling do more dmg than dot
dot do more dmg than istant
istant do less dmg of all

there are even m3 like in kobs /bo case where raze is not even slotted because these classes have access to better morales than raze.

there is a lot of morales requiring a better scaling with value but with balance in a stalement there is no good option here.... if someone would like to bring forth again that moral thread dev made and keep move from there........

also def morales vs off one, max m4 potential, moral drain balance etc...

[Natherul]

if someone would like to bring forth again that moral thread dev made and keep move from there........

also def morales vs off one, max m4 potential, moral drain balance etc...

If you mean tank morale overhaul, then we have listened to feedback and are doing changes to the proposal. I do apologize that some things takes time while others seems to go way faster, but this is a case of us attempting to have a more open dialog with you, the community and that coupled with real life takes time sadly.

But lets stick to topic of gains of morale here. Because those are two separate issues. As I mentioned in discord today one of the biggest pet peeves I have had with morale gains is that with too high gain you can easily get M4 within the CD of morales, meaning you can fire off M4 each minute. And thats something I personally feel is just wrong as M4 is supposed to be awesome and not something you should be able to weave into a rotation on each minute.

As for pumps, they can ofc be adjusted as well but I do strongly feel like we need to set a base value that we find acceptable at first before addressing any pumps or drains.

[peterthepan3]

if someone would like to bring forth again that moral thread dev made and keep move from there........

also def morales vs off one, max m4 potential, moral drain balance etc...

If you mean tank morale overhaul, then we have listened to feedback and are doing changes to the proposal. I do apologize that some things takes time while others seems to go way faster, but this is a case of us attempting to have a more open dialog with you, the community and that coupled with real life takes time sadly.

But lets stick to topic of gains of morale here. Because those are two separate issues. As I mentioned in discord today one of the biggest pet peeves I have had with morale gains is that with too high gain you can easily get M4 within the CD of morales, meaning you can fire off M4 each minute. And thats something I personally feel is just wrong as M4 is supposed to be awesome and not something you should be able to weave into a rotation on each minute.

As for pumps, they can ofc be adjusted as well but I do strongly feel like we need to set a base value that we find acceptable at first before addressing any pumps or drains.

Fair points.

[Acidic]

I think it is quite hard to separate out moral gain base value from moral gain + pump as the true impact of morals is only seen by organized min/max groups where moral pumps are used.
So for me the base moral value itself is not they key time, it should be based upon the fastest possible to get m4 set to xx seconds (not sure just now but 120seems right.
This would mean taking into account base, group pump, personal pump and moral gain gear, this would set the base.

The reason I pick 120 seconds for m4 is that this allows for choices optimize moral, escape damage etc with the tactics. Lower such as 60 seconds forced cookie cutter moral builds in my opinion

[wonshot]

Would keeping the 20moral per secound but increasing the cooldown on how often morals can be reused be an option, im just trying to think outside of the box here?

so 20moral per sec. but with say 2 or 3min min cooldown after you used an moral ability untill you can use one again. instead of the 1min cooldown.

If the issue is not how strong of a moral ability you can use, but how often?
Granted how I have no idea how this would affect smallscale, im sure Ptp3 have ammunition ready to shoot down this idea if it would ruin smallscale, in which I have no interest.

[wargrimnir]

if someone would like to bring forth again that moral thread dev made and keep move from there........

also def morales vs off one, max m4 potential, moral drain balance etc...

If you mean tank morale overhaul, then we have listened to feedback and are doing changes to the proposal. I do apologize that some things takes time while others seems to go way faster, but this is a case of us attempting to have a more open dialog with you, the community and that coupled with real life takes time sadly.

But lets stick to topic of gains of morale here. Because those are two separate issues. As I mentioned in discord today one of the biggest pet peeves I have had with morale gains is that with too high gain you can easily get M4 within the CD of morales, meaning you can fire off M4 each minute. And thats something I personally feel is just wrong as M4 is supposed to be awesome and not something you should be able to weave into a rotation on each minute.

As for pumps, they can ofc be adjusted as well but I do strongly feel like we need to set a base value that we find acceptable at first before addressing any pumps or drains.

That next iteration of the tank overhaul thread is on me. I've got a fair amount written up, just need to bear down and finish. Been a weird summer for productivity. We went through about 10 pages of feedback, many things changed.

When it comes to pumps and drains, I see issues being around ineffective pumps with base rates being too high, or problems with equity between the realms. I don't think it's hard to figure out that historically having efficient pumps would win engagements without a ton of skill involved. Drains are not a sufficient counter, though they do have a niche. Direct mirrors are never desirable, and class layout doesn't really support it all the time. Working with a handful of guidelines to sort out how to proceed isn't a simple task. Posting it on the forums for discussion is a whole other... experience. Looking forward to it.