[Feedback] Changes of morale

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roadkillrobin
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#151 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:52 am

Several M1 and 2 are just as important in small scale as they are ine large scale. There's a overlap here and changing the global cost for 1 and 2 affects RVR just as much as it does for small scale. The thing you could do is changing the moral cost for each individual moral. Now, I don't remember the costs for each tier but Sever Nerve Could cost 400M while Confusing Movement costs 240M for example and they could still be a Moral 1.

Again, blanket changes that affects all morals, when all morals arn't equal, is horrible sollution. I don't understand why this is the go to model to adress things in this game, especially when there's historical incidents in this game where blanket changes to things like AoE, Renown skills and gear shows that it simply doesn't work cos the classes, mirrors and archetypes arn't mirrors of each other.
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Natherul
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#152 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:05 am

Ill say again that different rates depending on whatever factor is NOT HAPPENING. Its terrible on many aspects.

Other then that Im open for ideas but any change needs to be damn clear for a new player just looking at the game. So Im not a big fan of varying CDs or costs as it destroys an already working system.
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roadkillrobin
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#153 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:17 am

Id say treating all Morals as equal are destroying it even more. Tbh tactics, morales and Mastery are confusing as they are in the first place. I convinced tree of my friends playing this game the last couple weeks and neither of em had any morals, tactics or Mastery points slotted until I pointed it out at rank 15ish. And these are all seasoned MMO players since the early 2000's. You know what they did when I asked em if they had it slotted? They read the tool tips. You can explain it there. The confusion of the mehanics stems more from removing the need to visit a trainer to learn new skills imo.
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Collateral
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#154 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:15 am

But normal abilities already have all sorts of cooldowns and costs. Isn't it then logical for a new player to think that morales would work the same? But instead they don't. Costs and cooldowns are the same for morales that are arguably worse than others. This is pretty obvious for many many m4s. So of course it's very hard to balance. Imagine if all abilities that, lets say, require you to be rank 40, cost the same and have the same cooldown. It would be an absolutely impossible nightmare to balance. So then it's no wonder that morales have always been a problem and pretty imbalanced, with many morales never seeing any sort of use, not even for shits and giggles.

That's why I think a morales function and strenght should strictly be based on the level they are. An m2 simply cannot be made as a 1200 unmitigatable instant aoe ability. It makes all other morales of that level useless; and not only of that level but those of higher level and cost. So if you wish to keep the mechanic as it is now, it will still be hard to balance particular morales and people will always complain, unless you make specific groups of morales and put certain types to certain levels, e.g. all instant aoe damage morales must be an m3 (which I think you should definitely do if the system won't change). Also remember that we didn't even introduce pumps and drains to the equation.
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mubbl
Posts: 141

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#155 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:19 am

i disagree, scaler removed moral cheese to a certain degree, gave some advatage against bigger numbers, punished blobbing.
that are the effects i could see, if the code was messy or not, cant evaluate.
it is mentioned in wiki.
in addition, based on that logic, parry mechanic have to be alterd to, ws-armorpen have to be changed nothing of these is mentioned anywhere.
system is not working, its just broken: instant pure dmg moral on second stage that costs like a fifth of max possible value...but i guess thats why we are here :P

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Natherul
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#156 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:37 am

mubbl wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:19 am
i disagree, scaler removed moral cheese to a certain degree, gave some advatage against bigger numbers, punished blobbing.
that are the effects i could see, if the code was messy or not, cant evaluate.
it is mentioned in wiki.
in addition, based on that logic, parry mechanic have to be alterd to, ws-armorpen have to be changed nothing of these is mentioned anywhere.
system is not working, its just broken: instant pure dmg moral on second stage that costs like a fifth of max possible value...but i guess thats why we are here :P
It did the opposite though, if you were outnumbered you got less morale and if you outnumbered the foe you got more morale. Also whats the mention of parry?
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Tesq
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#157 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:48 am

Spoiler:
I know it has been stated to the boredome so i gona spoil.

It really came down to cc/dmg morales

-Wl/mara/ib root m1
-Engi cannon smash m3
-All aoe morales inconsistency between channeling/dot/ista
-def morales not working vs off ones.
-most m4 from mastery not picked.

This is a small list but it is indicative of what you need to make cosistency in it's own league before fix rates or as said it gona backfire because rng god didnt create all morales equal and therefore an equal moral rate before equal morales will always have something off and thia thread gona go on forever.

Some general indicators

-No morale crow controll effect longer than 5 sec unless is champion challenge
-no eff debuff longer than 30 sec
-dmg of a morale must be in line with other morales of the same rank
-a moral of the same rank istant cant do the same dmg of a channeling one.
-def morales should work to a certain degree vs of morales
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Acidic
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#158 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:59 am

To me the hardest thing about this discution is that we are supposed to come up with a rate of moral gains when we don’t have clear indication of what the morals are going to look at in the future after your class by class re-do.
We have had manny threads of archetype morals and moral function , without knowing this I would suggest that this thread on moral rates should reflect the current morals and pumps. The reasoning behind this is that the changes to the rest will take time to realize and the rate will be around during that time.
My understanding is that the rate is not a huge thing to change, removing the scalar was and also was a needed thing to be removed.

So I would say right now with the state of raw damage m2 the rate is too high.
When there is a different balance of moral skills /drains/ pumps and hopefully no m2 raw damage then it could be re-evaluated based on what the new changes dictate.

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mubbl
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#159 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:21 am

Natherul wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:37 am
mubbl wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:19 am
i disagree, scaler removed moral cheese to a certain degree, gave some advatage against bigger numbers, punished blobbing.
that are the effects i could see, if the code was messy or not, cant evaluate.
it is mentioned in wiki.
in addition, based on that logic, parry mechanic have to be alterd to, ws-armorpen have to be changed nothing of these is mentioned anywhere.
system is not working, its just broken: instant pure dmg moral on second stage that costs like a fifth of max possible value...but i guess thats why we are here :P
It did the opposite though, if you were outnumbered you got less morale and if you outnumbered the foe you got more morale. Also whats the mention of parry?
ah okay, never had that feeling it is working like that. but if so okay, my bad. Parry is discribed like that: chance to defend against meele attacks, no mention of actual parry cone. moral scaler was explained and reachable in a logic way, parry details are not. But if scaler is not working in as intended, discribe your point makes alot more sense here.

ps. you could atleast mention it in topic that scaler seems to work other way around as it should :P , if it did.

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peterthepan3
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#160 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:32 am

Natherul wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:05 am
Ill say again that different rates depending on whatever factor is NOT HAPPENING. Its terrible on many aspects.
That's fine, just saying that one can't look at both largescale and smallscale rates/pumps in a vacuum and assume that setting blanket morale rates across the board will have positive effects for both.
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