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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:16 pm
by ztil
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:03 pm
6v6 has been reduced to who can pump to cheesy M4s the quickest again, so that's incredibly fun.

/s
Maybe the morale rate for 6v6 scenarios could still be set to 10/s and for oRvR it could be something higher?

Or the cost of M4 could be increased from 3600 to something higher to still make that particular morale ability take longer than the other ones to reach like someone suggested earlier in the thread.

Or third the “bomb” morales could be reduced
in damage to reduce impact in 6v6 situations but still making them a bit useful in warband situations. Making them weaker or making them defendable.

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:33 pm
by Fey
Certainly enjoyed our renewed gobbo squad and Lots a' shootin' dumps. Making Green great again.

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:37 am
by peterthepan3
ztil wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:16 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:03 pm
6v6 has been reduced to who can pump to cheesy M4s the quickest again, so that's incredibly fun.

/s
Maybe the morale rate for 6v6 scenarios could still be set to 10/s and for oRvR it could be something higher?

It's not even 6v6; morale gains pre-patch for 18v18 and under was at a perfectly acceptable rate. Morale pumps are allowing you to hit M4 in a ridiculously fast time rn. I won't beat about it too much since I know Nath already mentioned that it was only a placeholder/that he doesn't agree with how high it is at the moment, so I'll just share my experiences and leave it at that.

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:06 am
by Rydiak
The change (removal of scalar) is definitely a welcome one, but I agree with the consensus that the rate is too high. I'd say drop it 20% down to 20/sec and we can reevaluate from there.

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:56 am
by zulnam
I actually like the rate, but it is just a bit too fast though i will agree.

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:25 am
by Natherul
ztil wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:16 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:03 pm
6v6 has been reduced to who can pump to cheesy M4s the quickest again, so that's incredibly fun.

/s
Maybe the morale rate for 6v6 scenarios could still be set to 10/s and for oRvR it could be something higher?

Or the cost of M4 could be increased from 3600 to something higher to still make that particular morale ability take longer than the other ones to reach like someone suggested earlier in the thread.

Or third the “bomb” morales could be reduced
in damage to reduce impact in 6v6 situations but still making them a bit useful in warband situations. Making them weaker or making them defendable.
No, one of the reasons for removal of scalar is that its a hidden mechanic that makes no sense to a player. As such we will not implement a morale rate thats fluctuating. We will experiment to find a good place for gains.

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:44 am
by Bozzax
Game is in no worse condition wo scaler and with higher morale rates.

The flow is better in many ways and the proper use of morales can affect outcome to a higher extent. I think it adds to the game and ORVR skirmrish type of game etc.

Stuff like sm m2 snare now work ”as intended” (as a mirror to BO snare, well like it used to be) by being more available

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:12 am
by Aurandilaz
The 25 m/s is still not the old 36 m/s we had on live - and people had been used to that back then. It wasn't "fast" or fight defining, but it could be used to your benefit if you knew you could reach M4s whether defensive or offensive, in time - and calculating also that enemy might do same. Not the old state of M4 where they are seen 1-2 times per month or only in forts.
This allowed unique M4 specs to exist, examples like from BW M4 BH or WH Excommunicate (coolest named morale in whole game, objectively).
More classes being able to have access to new specs that may include M4s or various pumps or drains, cannot be a bad thing. Having more spec options is something that should not be scary just because it might upset your old team compositions and might shake your meta a bit.
If few classes (maybe Sorc/BW with self pumps) overperform, then those few ones can be looked at and maybe tweaked - not all 24 classes need to be moralenerfed because some few have their own core tacitc morale pumps.
Being able to use not just M1 or M2s, but occasional M3 and M4 - both in RVR and in PVE feels refreshing. Previous state of game having been that M4's were rarely worth ever speccing (unless ebin fort funnel afk fun times).
Morales are part of the combat mechanics, and access to them should be not be nerfed just because someone else might have better M1/2/3/4 for their class in that situation, which would most likely mean your class might have better Morale for some other situation.

Locking all M4's away from normal circumstances of pvp/pve (yes, pve also exists and it feels fun to finally be able to use M4's at times) makes no sense - there are 72 unique M4s that can be specced, and just because enemy might run better setup to maximize their morale gameplay potential does not mean "lets nerf everyone and their options".
If the amount of pumps or drains is not perfectly balanced (with Order kinda lacking spammable aoe morale drain akin to maras due to variety of reasons) - that can be balanced at some point. Or if some M4 is too strong. Or if some pump is too potent.

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:35 am
by Bozzax
Morale pumps are kept in check by 60s cds no need to touch them at all imo.

The rate of morale gain dont really change morale bombing being used or not tbh. Higher rates however makes for a more fluid and paced game. (Less idle time btw action and less static play).

The ”in media res” feeling of it is an improvment and no I don’t think it is to fast in any way. I’d even consider testing orig rates for a couple of months to avoid basing descisions on other ppl biased opinions

I’d like to add I used to think morales should be lower etc and quite frankly I was 100% wrong

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:54 pm
by Nameless
Noone fom live times was upset by original moral rates for small-scale and 6v6, no idea why ppl go crazy about that here.
It is even quite opposite, faster moral rates benefits small scale heroes to fight zerg