Making tanks into actual dps.

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Ekundu01
Posts: 77

Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#1 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Tank as a dps is not really an option at this point they don't have the tools to really fill that role in rvr or pve like a true melee dps can. This idea could open up other options for other classes to fill different roles if this works. IE... actual tank Doks or WPs. But that is another idea all together.

Tanks have the opposite skills of a melee dps like taunt instead of detaunt, skill damage is much lower, no charge, much higher armor mitigation due to heavy armor. They also don't get too many offensive tactics and are more defensive along with mostly support or defensive morales. And in some cases some tanks have been nerfed so far into the ground that they hit like a wet noodle even if they are dps.

The problem is you have to walk a fine line of balance so tanks can't be super hard to kill and hit like a melee dps.

Solution would be to make the dps trees of all tanks give access to melee dps abilities. This would require the tank abilities to be locked behind something so if the tank is playing an active dps they couldn't use tank skills or vice versa. Not sure if this is possible with the coding but the solution would be to have a pocket item you can buy in t2 that would give you access to new dps skills/tactics/morale through the dps tree and would require the pocket item to be worn for them to work and at the same time the pocket item would disable use of specific tank skills/tactics/morales. The pocket item would also reduce your armor down to medium armor levels to be in line with melee dps.

Things like taunt, challenge, jugg, aoe root, guard, htl, would all be disabled while the pocket item is equipped.

New melee dps abilities would be available as you spend points in the dps tree and would require the pocket item to be worn to use them. Skills like pbaoe detaunt just like melee dps get, charge, root break/immunity, bypass defense (postern bypass).

Damage of skills in the dps tree only would be brought up to melee dps levels though a passive that would have the same pocket item worn requirement.

New dps morales would be added as well with the same pocket item requirements to use them.

New dps tactics would be added with same pocket item requirements like the str tactic, flanking, riposte etc..

The dps trees would remain unchanged so all skills you have access to now would not change. The new added skills would require you to spend points in the dps tree to get access to them and to get all skills unlocked you would have to commit to picking up every point in the dps tree commiting you to the dps role. All new skills, tactics, morales, would be locked behind the pocket item being worn to use them.

Using Black orc as an example it would work as follows.

Path of Da'Brawler

Spend points to pick up Keep it Goin. You also get str increase tactic (pocket item worn required), 25% less hate tactic (pocket item worn required), jagged edge (pocket item worn required).

Spend points to pick up arm breaka. You also get same melee detaunt all melee get (pocket item worn required), Charge (pocket item required), root/snare break with immunity (pocket required).

Spend points to pick up Gork Smash! You also get Flanking (pocket required), riposte (pocket required).

Spend points to pick up T'ree Hit Combo. You also get by pass defenses (pocket required), sever nerve M1 (pocket required).

Spend points to pick up Guud at big Choppin! You also get Str/WS tactic reduced toughness (pocket required), AP gain when you crit (pocket required).

Spend points to pick up You Wot! You also get Force of will M2(pocket required), Broad Swings M3 (pocket required). New skill under 25% health finisher (pocket required).

Spend points to pick up Puddle o Muck. You also get passive buff that increases all Path of Da'Brawler ability damage by 25% (pocket required).

This is just an example of how it would work but specifics would have to be ironed out for each tank to not be able to create OP situations like a Black guard being dps spec and having anti detaunt.
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Manatikik
Posts: 808

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#2 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:02 pm

**** posting is getting a lot more in depth lately.
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DanielWinner
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Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#3 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:10 pm

Balance stuff should go to Balance forum.
This colour is always used for moderation and opinion of the team.

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Akilinus
Posts: 222

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#4 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:33 pm

Why do you want to turn tanks into dps?
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Ekundu01
Posts: 77

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#5 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:50 pm

Akilinus wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:33 pm
Why do you want to turn tanks into dps?
Because even though tanks have some dps oriented things they aren't really considered dps even if they go full dps build. Would you take a tank speced for dps as a dps role in pve dungeons or take a true melee dps that will do way better damage. The best a tank does is be an off tank with slightly better damage over the main tank.

Some tanks really have no reason to be two handed other then for the look cause the damage isn't all that much better. Some have it better then others but you really only are one role. SCs you get classified as a dps if you spec that tree but you are definitely not pulling melee dps numbers on a dps speced tank unless you grossly over gear your opposition.
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Arbich
Posts: 491

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#6 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:28 pm

Ekundu01 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:50 pm
Akilinus wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:33 pm
Why do you want to turn tanks into dps?
Because even though tanks have some dps oriented things they aren't really considered dps even if they go full dps build. Would you take a tank speced for dps as a dps role in pve dungeons or take a true melee dps that will do way better damage. The best a tank does is be an off tank with slightly better damage over the main tank.

Some tanks really have no reason to be two handed other then for the look cause the damage isn't all that much better. Some have it better then others but you really only are one role. SCs you get classified as a dps if you spec that tree but you are definitely not pulling melee dps numbers on a dps speced tank unless you grossly over gear your opposition.
You didn´t answer the question.
What is the gain for the game in whole to make tanks in dps?
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Ekundu01
Posts: 77

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#7 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:49 pm

Arbich wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:28 pm
You didn´t answer the question.
What is the gain for the game in whole to make tanks in dps?
Gives extra options for group comps. Order complains they don't have the melee train destro has, this would open up that as an option for order to make melee comps. Destro already has solid melee train this would just enhance the options. Tanks that spec this way would be considered melee dps at that point and no longer be considered a tank because they would lose all the tools that make you a tank in exchange for better damage.

Most healers have 2 specs/roles they can fill, dps or heal and actually do that job well if they commit to it with the gear. Some need more love then others but that is another discussion. Tanks really don't fill the dps role well even though we have an option to be dps. Most of the dps tank stuff is being bottle necked into two handed only but you really don't do much more damage because that would be unfair to let you be super hard to kill and do some good damage output at the same time.
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Penril
Posts: 4443

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#8 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:55 pm

Ekundu01 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:50 pm
Would you take a tank speced for dps as a dps role in pve dungeons or take a true melee dps that will do way better damage.

Depends if the main tank needs to be guarded, or if certain bosses require an off-tank.

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toffikx
Posts: 53

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#9 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:04 pm

Ekundu01 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:57 pm
Things like taunt, challenge, jugg, aoe root, guard, htl, would all be disabled while the pocket item is equipped.
If you don't want to use any of the tank-specific abilties you can always...roll a dps class.
The game is already low on tank and heal archetypes, especially with the low pop.
It's perfectly fine as it is now.

BeautfulToad
Posts: 319

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#10 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:07 pm

To be honest, I dont think making 2handed tanks stronger at damage is not that difficult. You'd just up the amount of damage they can do in that ability that reduces armour at the same time. The main issue with 2handed tanks is that they wear heavy armour, so allowing players to nerf armour and get a little bit more damage as a result would be interesting.

As far as I know, no dps tank takes the ability (+20% damage & -33% armour)?
Last edited by BeautfulToad on Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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