Making tanks into actual dps.

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Ekundu01
Posts: 73

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#31 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:24 pm

Natherul wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am
Mind you that as stated in previous patch notes the check for what you are is not on gear anymore its on mastery points spent. Also to add that this topic is teetering on the edge of lock since its a balance proposal topic in a non balance subforum.
I appreciate not locking or just throwing this into the balance section since we have 0 voice in the balance section and I didn't see this as a balance thing and more a new idea where the use of a pocket item could change the game play of a class but keep them in check without being over powered. If i am posting new ideas in the wrong section then please direct me to the right subforum.
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BeautfulToad
Posts: 302

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#32 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Haskr wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:23 pm
Natherul wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am
since its a balance proposal topic in a non balance subforum.
In this sense the sentence 'balance proposals go to the balance forum' seems to equal 'trash goes into the trash can', as both are propably never going to be looked at again (?).
Not sure this is balance, except for a couple people who have said that chosen/kotbs needs to be buffed. The thread is largely discussing whether it is right to class 2-handed as dps (defined by mastery tree specialisation), and not whether certain classes are stronger or weaker. This is how I see the feedback element of the conversation going so far:

OP: DPS tanks should be buffed
Player 1: Roll dps
Player 2: Actually, devs say they are dps
Devs: Tanks can already be made into decent enough DPS, and so should be counted as such

Tankbeardz
Posts: 545

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#33 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:23 pm

Natherul wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am
Mind you that as stated in previous patch notes the check for what you are is not on gear anymore its on mastery points spent. Also to add that this topic is teetering on the edge of lock since its a balance proposal topic in a non balance subforum.
Are both left (Crimson Death/KD) and right trees (detaunt tactic, heal debuff) considered DPS then? Just because you take the debuffs doesn't mean you are DPS.

You can look at my tank for example..

Bloodlord set (This gear is insane really. Offensive bonuses/procs + insane defensive stats)
Red Eye Set
Winds Impervious
Defensive Sentinel weapon
Wounds talis in everything

You are telling me that this is DPS because I'm specced into the left tree? Thinking about this more...a lot of the same types of questions would exist on Knight too. You have some dps abilities in both left and right tree (but seriously...can you ever call a knight DPS?)

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wargrimnir
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Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#34 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:13 pm

Tankbeardz wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:23 pm
Natherul wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am
Mind you that as stated in previous patch notes the check for what you are is not on gear anymore its on mastery points spent. Also to add that this topic is teetering on the edge of lock since its a balance proposal topic in a non balance subforum.
Are both left (Crimson Death/KD) and right trees (detaunt tactic, heal debuff) considered DPS then? Just because you take the debuffs doesn't mean you are DPS.

You can look at my tank for example..

Bloodlord set (This gear is insane really. Offensive bonuses/procs + insane defensive stats)
Red Eye Set
Winds Impervious
Defensive Sentinel weapon
Wounds talis in everything

You are telling me that this is DPS because I'm specced into the left tree? Thinking about this more...a lot of the same types of questions would exist on Knight too. You have some dps abilities in both left and right tree (but seriously...can you ever call a knight DPS?)
I had a stupid conversation about this last night as well. You guys are really overreacting. There needs to be some kind of catch for tanks that intentionally spec for DPS. All we've done here is changed it from an arbitrary check to a more complex one that should better catch the specs were looking to classify as DPS. On top of that, make a group and you don't have to worry about it at all. Or pug harder and get slotted where we deem appropriate.

"Areyoutellingme????"

YES. That's how it works. We change things and TELL you about it. Would you prefer we don't do patch notes and let you guess? Maybe just not push anything public that we think could be moderately blown out of proportion? It's really tiring that some people want to beat this stupid drum as hard as they can.

Play a tank. Your "Tank" abilities are not in the "DPS" tree. Your choices matter only when you pug. It's not that hard of a concept.
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Tankbeardz
Posts: 545

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#35 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 pm

You are right. Waiting an hour sometimes for a pop because I don't have a set group makes sense. When I do have a group, we kill everything and the SC ends in 2 minutes for 2 emblems. Got it.

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Manatikik
Posts: 804

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#36 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Tankbeardz wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 pm
You are right. Waiting an hour sometimes for a pop because I don't have a set group makes sense. When I do have a group, we kill everything and the SC ends in 2 minutes for 2 emblems. Got it.
Have you ever thought about making a worse group?
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LetsYouDie
Posts: 11

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#37 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:59 pm

make welfs tanky-tanky right
Spoiler:
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DokB
Legacy RR80
Posts: 469

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#38 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:19 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:13 pm
Tankbeardz wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:23 pm
Natherul wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am
Mind you that as stated in previous patch notes the check for what you are is not on gear anymore its on mastery points spent. Also to add that this topic is teetering on the edge of lock since its a balance proposal topic in a non balance subforum.
Are both left (Crimson Death/KD) and right trees (detaunt tactic, heal debuff) considered DPS then? Just because you take the debuffs doesn't mean you are DPS.

You can look at my tank for example..

Bloodlord set (This gear is insane really. Offensive bonuses/procs + insane defensive stats)
Red Eye Set
Winds Impervious
Defensive Sentinel weapon
Wounds talis in everything

You are telling me that this is DPS because I'm specced into the left tree? Thinking about this more...a lot of the same types of questions would exist on Knight too. You have some dps abilities in both left and right tree (but seriously...can you ever call a knight DPS?)
I had a stupid conversation about this last night as well. You guys are really overreacting. There needs to be some kind of catch for tanks that intentionally spec for DPS. All we've done here is changed it from an arbitrary check to a more complex one that should better catch the specs were looking to classify as DPS. On top of that, make a group and you don't have to worry about it at all. Or pug harder and get slotted where we deem appropriate.

"Areyoutellingme????"

YES. That's how it works. We change things and TELL you about it. Would you prefer we don't do patch notes and let you guess? Maybe just not push anything public that we think could be moderately blown out of proportion? It's really tiring that some people want to beat this stupid drum as hard as they can.

Play a tank. Your "Tank" abilities are not in the "DPS" tree. Your choices matter only when you pug. It's not that hard of a concept.
Then it’s a ridiculous, arbitrary rule for pug tanks to be classified as DPS in scenarios based on their spec.
Their damage (and even their skillset) doesn’t fall anywhere within the same realm as an actual DPS, to deem them as such is beyond stupid. All this check seems to accomplish is solo players taking up a DPS slot in a scenario, robbing your own team of a spot which might have been filled by an actual DPS player.

What prompted you to introduce these checks for scenarios in the first place?
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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 5446
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Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#39 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:51 pm

Tankbeardz wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 pm
You are right. Waiting an hour sometimes for a pop because I don't have a set group makes sense. When I do have a group, we kill everything and the SC ends in 2 minutes for 2 emblems. Got it.
The scen manager will fill groups despite their spec until there aren't enough players in the pool. It does not require balanced groups, it simply has a BIAS towards balanced groups, in which tanks specced deep into their DPS tree will be flagged as such. It is still very much possible to have a scenario pop with 0 healers and tanks if you have 6 dps on each side left in the queue.
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Dabbart
Posts: 1945

Re: Making tanks into actual dps.

Post#40 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:03 pm

Spoiler:
Manatikik wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:32 pm
Tankbeardz wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 pm
You are right. Waiting an hour sometimes for a pop because I don't have a set group makes sense. When I do have a group, we kill everything and the SC ends in 2 minutes for 2 emblems. Got it.
Have you ever thought about making a worse group?
Yea, cause Beardz is so well know for his Meta-comps... It's the player, not the class. #StopPlinkingMe!

On-topic: Wont someone please think of the solo DPS classes and their queue time! Oh wait, no one does nor should they...

But the SC queue is diverging from the OP. Which, I like to think was adequately answered. No, tanks don't need more DPS potential. Rebalancing of some old changes? Absolutely. A rethinking and maybe tweak of Focused Offense? Most likely. More raw DPS? Hell no. Balancing through pocket items? Hell no.

Giving Tanks access to DPS tactics/abilities would mean DPS/healers yell that they don't get any goodies. Then what do we have? The same bullshit GW2 did, where every class can heal, tank, and DPS and balance is in the wind.

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