FEEDBACK: AOE cap

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normanis
Posts: 407
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Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#61 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:01 pm

yes i played aoe class, byt not bw/sorc/magus/engi ( they are too easy for this aoe cap)
aoe cap make poor ppl better ( can spam something and i have kills) and than die
all events i was and when i was in pug, i didnt see new system is zerg destroyer, even more ppl stuck with zerg,
i call it samosaohism when my 1wb countered 2-5 destro wb. and we where melted. because our 5 bw vs x5 sorc/maguses and rest aoe clases ( 5x24 = 120). - doest it works against zerg ( ppl stop play as zergs) - NO.
is pugs suffering = yes
do pugs stuck with rhundercats, 7 and cntk = yes ( even if premades would say so pugs piss off , they will follow tham).
is lonly pug wb rr income for premades = YES
do premades like fmj and pnp face equal order premades like 7 and thundercats 24vs24 = NO
its easer farm pugs
what i think about aoe cap = its not working as intend = show even more class disbalance
what i think about x2rr = YES I LIKE IT (THUMB UP)

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scatterthewinds
Posts: 146

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#62 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:05 pm

Its a positive change.

-gives smaller parties a chance to threaten larger groups.
-obviously with organized warbands its going to be numbers/build/coordination that determines the winner, as it always is.
-I would reduce aoe limit for damage morales. I think that its the damage morales that cause a lot of problems in this game. To be honest I would nerf bat all the aoe damage morales too.

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Greenbeast
Posts: 236

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#63 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:25 pm

Did you play with the change?
Yes. I lead two warband events on Sunday and Tuesday
What career did you play with?
Black Orc
Is the change good as it is?
No. It decreased TTK.
We fought bouth pugs and premades
Premade fights are ending faster than before. We fought 7th Legion on bouth days. Most of the fights ended before anyone reached m2(and bouth warbands run the pump) So basically if we applied CC before enemy - they die, if our enemy managed to break our formation before our cc landed we died. It was interesting to watch those fights on our and 7th streams. In both cases one warband did zero damage and died (worked same for us and them).
Morale damage and CC are too strong. On Sunday I managed to run into order blob during fort p3 and used M3 silence on the ramp in the lord room. It hited rdps and healers - enemy wiped.
Same works for us - one aoe knock down or stagger and warband is dead.
Is the change good but too far (as in lower cap to another value but between 9 and 24)?
Try to lower it. The problem is that you can't use HTL anymore and def tanks loosing in their role because since the aoe hit 24 targes all cone attacks that used to hit 9 stacked tanks before hit everything behind them. TTK decreasing and healing through the damage is close to impossible if your enemy know what to do.
It works for both sides by the way.
Meta will change indeed but if you will leave aoe cap at 24 targets and tune down the CC it will just lead to a situation where destruction has to adapt the meta and order can still play their ball of death with 6-8 BWs.
So my main concern in it what role def tanks, guard and htl mechanic will play in the current meta on destruction side?
Is the change good but some abilities needs to be specifically capped (if so what ones?)?
Morales, CC, Challenges and all telegraph attacks.
Are there any specific areas where this becomes especially troublesome?
It don't help against zergs. Because due to the campaign mechanic people zerg as soon as they have two stars. When destro or order have premades hidden in zerg everything dies in seconds because now these warbands are even more dangerous and can easily erase bigger number of players. It works bouth ways.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2020

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#64 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:16 pm

Cap isnt the issue range is. Avfew abilities (disabling, delaying) become to influential with inc cap (old range).

Consider a bo m3 silence with range 100 and no cap vs a 20 feet silence or 15 feet even.

Lastly healing likely needs to be changed to aoe ranged instead of grp. Again not 100 feet unbound instead 50 or 80.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

anrix
Posts: 20

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#65 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:17 pm

Did you play with the change?
Yes
What career did you play with?
Shaman and Chosen
Is the change good as it is?
No
Is the change good but too far (as in lower cap to another value but between 9 and 24)?
I prefer the original cap
Is the change good but some abilities needs to be specifically capped (if so what ones?)?
I prefer the original cap
Are there any specific areas where this becomes especially troublesome?
Originally I did not like these changes. Even now they make certain situations feel nearly impossible, like pushing doorways. But I enjoy these changes less as a healer than as A tank as I feel Chosen has some abilities to deal with the new aoe cap, speccing in fluctuation aura and tactic bane shield. That said I feel less free to play the way I want without getting steamrolled or frustrated and I can see how people specced for the aoe cap find this change positive, but overall I find that a myopic perspective because of the constraints to spec and play style required to deal with bombing.

scatterthewinds
Posts: 146

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#66 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:01 pm

  • Did you play with the change? Yes
  • What career did you play with? Sm ww, in organized 12 man and pug 24.
  • Is the change good as it is? Yes
  • Is the change good but too far (as in lower cap to another value but between 9 and 24)? Yes.
  • Is the change good but some abilities needs to be specifically capped (if so what ones?)? Yes
  • Are there any specific areas where this becomes especially troublesome? Only if you position poorly.

    The 12 man party was lots of fun and we felt we had always had a chance vs a warband or more. Prior to changes there was never a way a smaller group could take a larger group head-on because there wasn't enough damage. Now you can punish static poorly led blobs.

Alfa1986
Posts: 255

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#67 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:15 pm

Did you play with the change? Yes
What career did you play with? BW, SH, zealot
Is the change good as it is? No
Is the change good but too far (as in lower cap to another value but between 9 and 24)? -
Is the change good but some abilities needs to be specifically capped (if so what ones?)? -
Are there any specific areas where this becomes especially troublesome? The keep's door, gate, the fort, lord room etc (any narrow bottleneck where many people can get stuck).



I have played with these changes not too much, about 20 hours, and I can say folowing. firstly and earlier not weak AoE classes have now become much stronger (BW, SORC). secondly, the goal that was set (separation of zerg and the ability of small organized groups to resist huge pug's warbands) was not solved in any way, the zergs became even larger, people began to join into the blobs even more actively. and thirdly, and this is the worst. in narrow spaces such as inner Keep doors, inner Fort doors, Keep gates, Fort gates, it became very difficult to play for attacker's side.

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Jeliel80
Posts: 24

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#68 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:20 pm

I had more time to properly test these changes, so I'll add on what said previously:

Did you play with the change?
Yes, extensively with usual guild WB events

What career did you play with?
RP RR 82+

Is the change good as it is?
I was all about it before, but it requires further iteration, at the moment it's messy

Is the change good but too far (as in lower cap to another value but between 9 and 24)?
I think that for normal damage abilities might be okish, probably need a bit lowering (15 targets?), but for morale (damage and not), CC, drains and utilities it's way too powerful and should be bought back to previous numbers.

Is the change good but some abilities needs to be specifically capped (if so what ones?)?
Yeah, as above, okish on normal dmg, to be reverted on utilities and morales.

Are there any specific areas where this becomes especially troublesome?
Yes, Crowd Control abilities (drains, kb, kb, silence, etc.) and morales.

Thanks and take care.

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Natherul
Lead Developer
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Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#69 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:12 am

Thanks to all who participated in the feedback!

Overall conclusion so far is that the change is good but that some abilities needs to be looked at with individual caps. As such next patch we have added 9 cap on:
order
Solar Flare - morale drain (was already set to 9)
Doom Seeker - 3s KD
Shadow Blades - morale drain

destro
Energy Ripple - 3s KD
Windblock - 50% healdebuff
Yer Nothin - morale drain
Yer Goin Down - 50% healdebuff
Stomp Da Yard - 3s KD
Crippling Terror - 7s Silence/Disarm

As you can see these are all morale abilites and we will go forward with monitoring and adding more caps on abilities as needed. The reasoning behind not aoecapping damage morale is because we feel a blob should not protect you from that damage, however harsh that might be. This thread will be kept open to continuously gather feedback and those who provided feedback prior to this are free and welcome to do so once the patch with the changes has been live for a bit.

Remember, this is NOT a discussion thread but a straight up feedback thread that is heavily moderated. If you want to add to this thread please follow the structure laid out in the original post.
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OndeTv
Posts: 53

Re: FEEDBACK: AOE cap

Post#70 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:55 pm

While not strictly feedback (i already posted my feedback in the asked format), i thought i'd do a quick count of posted feedback which was decidedly for or against as this was of interest to me. I am guessing it is interesting to others as well, but there are probably many out there who don't care to go through every post to do a count.

According to my count, this was the result:

25 posters like the change
19 posters dislike the change
x posters we're undecided or had mixed feelings about it (sorry, i did not count these)
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