no fort limit + xrealming + 24 aoe cap = disaster

[GoreFist]

This has turned into a mess in NA. Last 2 nights...2 forts (1 order and 1 destro) and no one could get the inner down due to high population on the defense. In the destro defense, it was so bad that order were literally zerging into the spawn because the heros couldn't even keep up with the numbers.

In another fort there was a win because the number of attackers was drastically higher than the defenders.

Also, there is something wrong with somebody's level 16 alt being able to win a bag, on a toon that may never be able to wear the gear, while many appropriately leveled players have had to buy the entire set. It doesn't make sense to include sub 40/40 people in the roll for a gear that they are no where near close to wearing.

If you're getting beat on contribution by a sub-40 character, you're still going to get beat on contribution by a 40+ player.

If the contribution system actually worked like you think it does, maybe.. Here, let me give you some examples:
Destro defending Fell landing yesterday (failed). Personally capped 2 flags. Assist capped/defended many flags. Active in many battles, many recorded kills/assist. Here is what happened when this particular fort was over:
https://i.imgur.com/x60nyIs.png
No renown. No medals. No influence. No nothing. Asking around, some players received renown and medals, others did not.

Here is another example from destro attacking stonewatch yesterday (failed). To my knowledge only 2 flags were capped once in the entire duration of the fort by a single player who managed to sneak in (Ishviel). Everyone else was trying to get in, but was repressed by order and later on confined to the destro warcamp at the fort. Many personal and assist kills during this time. However, this was the result at the end of the fort:
https://i.imgur.com/p6i3Wit.png
Once again, no medals and a measly 144 renown, while many received medals for basically being afk the whole time (which i don't blame them since there was close to no point). A guildie specifically noted something along the lines of "Thats funny. 4 medals for sitting on my a**."

I was part of 1 or 2 other forts prior to these two which also awarded absolutely nothing, but i did not screenshot those.

Here's another bug for you while we are at it. Blessing of bokor. The item expired and went poof. However, both baron samndis gaze and the blessing of bokor stayed active on my marauder character:
https://i.imgur.com/u8mQgVj.png

Oh, i have another one for you. Thunder mountain the other day. 5 star keep and 4 bos held:
https://i.imgur.com/ILvkQBk.png
https://i.imgur.com/HmFg6d3.png
Yet, the zone did not flip until forcefully done so by a GM.

So please tell us again that it is something that we are not doing right when we think mechanics are not working as they are supposed to.

No need to be so arrogant, yes its frustrating but you could learn how to discuss things in a civilized manner. Its less likely someone will do something for you if you're being a **** ********. Among other things there really is now way to understand with just pictures.... did you just log in before it ended while farming on the opposite faction for RR? like I don't understand the pictures you show dont really mean anything but you were present lol.....

[carlos]

If you're getting beat on contribution by a sub-40 character, you're still going to get beat on contribution by a 40+ player.

If the contribution system actually worked like you think it does, maybe.. Here, let me give you some examples:
Destro defending Fell landing yesterday (failed). Personally capped 2 flags. Assist capped/defended many flags. Active in many battles, many recorded kills/assist. Here is what happened when this particular fort was over:
https://i.imgur.com/x60nyIs.png
No renown. No medals. No influence. No nothing. Asking around, some players received renown and medals, others did not.

Here is another example from destro attacking stonewatch yesterday (failed). To my knowledge only 2 flags were capped once in the entire duration of the fort by a single player who managed to sneak in (Ishviel). Everyone else was trying to get in, but was repressed by order and later on confined to the destro warcamp at the fort. Many personal and assist kills during this time. However, this was the result at the end of the fort:
https://i.imgur.com/p6i3Wit.png
Once again, no medals and a measly 144 renown, while many received medals for basically being afk the whole time (which i don't blame them since there was close to no point). A guildie specifically noted something along the lines of "Thats funny. 4 medals for sitting on my a**."

I was part of 1 or 2 other forts prior to these two which also awarded absolutely nothing, but i did not screenshot those.

Here's another bug for you while we are at it. Blessing of bokor. The item expired and went poof. However, both baron samndis gaze and the blessing of bokor stayed active on my marauder character:
https://i.imgur.com/u8mQgVj.png

Oh, i have another one for you. Thunder mountain the other day. 5 star keep and 4 bos held:
https://i.imgur.com/ILvkQBk.png
https://i.imgur.com/HmFg6d3.png
Yet, the zone did not flip until forcefully done so by a GM.

So please tell us again that it is something that we are not doing right when we think mechanics are not working as they are supposed to.

No need to be so arrogant, yes its frustrating but you could learn how to discuss things in a civilized manner. Its less likely someone will do something for you if you're being a **** ********. Among other things there really is now way to understand with just pictures.... did you just log in before it ended while farming on the opposite faction for RR? like I don't understand the pictures you show dont really mean anything but you were present lol.....

Doesn't he simple ask if they are doing something wrong?
To be fair, i don't always agree with OndeTv (almost never tbh) but arrogant is nothing i would say he is. I do believe he is pretty much well manored (at least compared to many others... me for instance)-

[Aurandilaz]

* an organised guild WB can now win against a massive zerg

This is not true. Proven both sides.

FMJ/PNP organised WBs owned hard by order zerg.
VII/TC/Beavers organised WBs owned hard by destro zerg.

Nothing fancy here. Zerg can just faceroll anything in their way - except bigger zerg.

good 24man guild wb can take about 2-3x on their numbers, meaning 50-70 enemies, assuming some incompetency amongst enemies (pugs) and by blitzing in with enough force to shatter the initial frontline and destroy it within 5-10sec and keeping rolling until there is a critical number of enemy dps/heals dead.
obviously there are limits, and usually 1:2 odds victories are rare (organized warbands can pull it off), 1:3 odd victories are just embarrassing for the larger numbered side who should not be losing.
1:4 odds are about impossible, and well, thats just how game is, otherwise it would probably be imbalanced as hell if somehow a smaller force defeats a much larger enemy force.


don't really understand the anger against 24 AoE in this thread, considering you normally apart from funnels don't even hit more than 5-15 people in that 15-30ft area that your AoE dmg reaches. funnels have been a mess since forever and barely changed since the changes.

[adapter]

lmao, the new fort system is WAAAAY better than the previous one, this post is nonsense.

[Flavorburst]

* an organised guild WB can now win against a massive zerg

This is not true. Proven both sides.

FMJ/PNP organised WBs owned hard by order zerg.
VII/TC/Beavers organised WBs owned hard by destro zerg.

Nothing fancy here. Zerg can just faceroll anything in their way - except bigger zerg.

good 24man guild wb can take about 2-3x on their numbers, meaning 50-70 enemies, assuming some incompetency amongst enemies (pugs) and by blitzing in with enough force to shatter the initial frontline and destroy it within 5-10sec and keeping rolling until there is a critical number of enemy dps/heals dead.
obviously there are limits, and usually 1:2 odds victories are rare (organized warbands can pull it off), 1:3 odd victories are just embarrassing for the larger numbered side who should not be losing.
1:4 odds are about impossible, and well, thats just how game is, otherwise it would probably be imbalanced as hell if somehow a smaller force defeats a much larger enemy force.


don't really understand the anger against 24 AoE in this thread, considering you normally apart from funnels don't even hit more than 5-15 people in that 15-30ft area that your AoE dmg reaches. funnels have been a mess since forever and barely changed since the changes.

From what I have seen from practically all of the organized WBs, they all disagree with you that they can "take out 2-3x their numbers".

[OndeTv]

No need to be so arrogant, yes its frustrating but you could learn how to discuss things in a civilized manner. Its less likely someone will do something for you if you're being a **** ********. Among other things there really is now way to understand with just pictures.... did you just log in before it ended while farming on the opposite faction for RR? like I don't understand the pictures you show dont really mean anything but you were present lol.....

I hope i was not arrogant at the time (you are quoting a month old post), at least if that is the case it is unintended. Frustrated would probably be the word i would use. That being said, the pictures weren't posted for players to understand, but for the staff to understand. Later on i made a much more detailed post of similar issues including full chat and combat logs on the bugtracker. You are welcome to look at it yourself if you wish:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15134

Doesn't he simple ask if they are doing something wrong?
To be fair, i don't always agree with OndeTv (almost never tbh) but arrogant is nothing i would say he is. I do believe he is pretty much well manored (at least compared to many others... me for instance)-

Thanks. And hey, if we all agreed on everything it would also be pretty dull right?

[...]
don't really understand the anger against 24 AoE in this thread, considering you normally apart from funnels don't even hit more than 5-15 people in that 15-30ft area that your AoE dmg reaches. funnels have been a mess since forever and barely changed since the changes.

I think most who hold anger against the 24 aoe cap do so because it helps keep the age old bombing meta alive (as well as increase the issue of funnels). While a bombing warband (regardless of which faction is doing it) can be fun for the participants, it is largely detrimental to the overall fun of community because:

a) fights are over faster (fun is had when both the losing and the winning side felt they had time to matter in a fight)
b) increases the effectiveness of x marks the spot morale bombing (sorc and bw mostly, but not exclusively)
c) promotes meta class stacking rather than class diversity (which ofcourse means less fun for those not playing these meta classes)
d) makes funnel issues even more apparent

At least that is how i see it, both back on live, on this server when the 24 cap was first introduced and as of this writing.

[Hypernia]

The bomb meta exists because of the entire game design. Forts have over 100 people per side. Single target classes can be useful, but have a much smaller niche compared to bomb WBs when its 100 per side. It's also just harder to organize than bombing in 1 spot.

If you want class diversity then there needs to be more situations that have 12v12 or smaller fights. The meta is just the reaction to the design of the game

[OndeTv]

Oh its a reaction to the game design for sure, not disputing that. I am arguing that the 24 cap increases the issues of this design though. Sadly, according to staff posts, it seems this cap is here to stay.

I don't agree that it is easier to organize though (unless ofcourse you already have the meta class setup present, in which case yes, then it is easier).

[wonshot]

While it might be the case for some players, my personal experience is that our warband have experimented with the following after we saw the 24aoe cap:

Slayer based warband with no morale wincondition
Ranged BW and more Archmages instead of the Godtier "wp + rp" healing duo
Double utility spot instead of raw damage
WH warband spec

Compared to pre-24patch where it was all about the BW stacking. But it could be different from other players im not denying that. But from our point of view the 24aoe cap patch added more classes to the warbandviable-pool and didnt limmit it even further.

On destro im seeing way more mara play, due to the fact they can completly deny ALL morale play from Orderside, and now the Meatball meta is starting to peak while sorc is back on the table for some guilds.

Classdiverserty is not in a perfect spot for largescale but its deffo not worse id say.

[hammerhead]

I propose a solution to all problems at once! If your fraction is numerically superior to the enemy by 100%, then the “Against all Blobs” buff is applied, removing all contributions and the chest’s role.
Old buff, "Against all odds" can be removed. This is a lot for the players of the underdog faction, and they are already motivated enough to continue to fight in the face of a numerically superior opponent.