no fort limit + xrealming + 24 aoe cap = disaster

[Dalsie]

Just as a clarification, you know that the original game has no aoe caps. Right? RoR added AOE caps with the reasoning that a blob can annihilate any force with aoe. Problem is that they still could as long as the other side was less then cap and it also helped the blob as it protected them from damage.

EDIT:
And to clarify Im all for giving more tools to fight the blob as its something we have been trying to address many times, though having and AOE cap (and especially a low one) counters any other effort to fight the blob.

The original game had no aoe caps AT LAUNCH, it was then changed and capped for good reason. As mentioned in the post above, this 24 cap has done nothing to stop zerging, it has only allowed organised guild to get more kills - and those organised guilds were generally already winning well against pugs. You gave them a win more button. In RvR in general, fights are over much faster, and are more boring than ever.

The title of this thread sums it up well.

[Gracely]

The portal system is much better. Even though it could still be abused it was much better than the blatent xrealming that goes on. Plus you had to work to get into a fort which makes it fairer.

[Direbloodykiller]

Just as a clarification, you know that the original game has no aoe caps. Right? RoR added AOE caps with the reasoning that a blob can annihilate any force with aoe. Problem is that they still could as long as the other side was less then cap and it also helped the blob as it protected them from damage.

EDIT:
And to clarify Im all for giving more tools to fight the blob as its something we have been trying to address many times, though having and AOE cap (and especially a low one) counters any other effort to fight the blob.

The original game had no aoe caps AT LAUNCH, it was then changed and capped for good reason. As mentioned in the post above, this 24 cap has done nothing to stop zerging, it has only allowed organised guild to get more kills - and those organised guilds were generally already winning well against pugs. You gave them a win more button. In RvR in general, fights are over much faster, and are more boring than ever.

The title of this thread sums it up well.

At least there are now tools. The fact that most players doesn't know how to use it is a player issue (though some have understood how to use it).
Organised guilds did NEVER win against the blob before, now some does.

[Dalsie]

Organised guilds did NEVER win against the blob before, now some does.

Are you for real? I've watched organised guilds farm pug WBs for hours, from T2 all the way to fort. You've been here for just over a month, I don't believe you get to make the call on NEVER

maybe instead of just raw damage to try and deal with the zerging and safety in numbers by killing them, how about a more "control heavy" approach.
Im just spitballing here:
- hard CC have longer duration on you when zerging (aao related?) or just when X ammount of players are on an oRvR BO (not keep). Simply just to used the full meaning of the word Crowdcontrol, to control the masses.

Why? Why, why, why, why? Please explain to me why smaller numbers should get some kind of an advantage? Sorry, I just don't get it at all. If you are in a small organised guild, then your advantage comes from your organisation, planning, communication, high gear level, etc. In the past this has set the good groups apart from the pugs and it has worked fine. AAO already exists, and that is the incentive, do you really need some kind of handicap as well? If that's the case, give solo-roamers an advantage, because they are often outnumbered. Solo roamers should receive a speed boost, and a damage boost, and have extra armor - to make up for the numbers. We should also considering removing Warbands from the game entirely. Make the maximum group allowed to be 6 man.

There is no "evil blob" man. I have seen the organised guilds do dam well against double numbers in the past before these new changed. Organisation and skill is the weapon of the guilds, numbers is the weapon of the pugs. At some point numbers will overcome organisation - and that's fine!

[turlututuhu]

Battles are too fast, AOE too powerfull.

They need advantages because they are bads.
I m here since the begining of the server and players who are good today were not so good at the begining of the server when it was less diferences between characters.

If you are bad you need more organization because you have an adaptation problem, you need more assist, more favor.

Some of those peoples join a guild not for playing but just to have more advantage and less problem playing (followers), problem with those sort of people : they have more social influenc than simple players.

Warhammer Online battlfield need only 5 keys and less now for a warband to dominate the red lake. It is more easy. AOE make dudes kings.

[Direbloodykiller]

Organised guilds did NEVER win against the blob before, now some does.

Are you for real? I've watched organised guilds farm pug WBs for hours, from T2 all the way to fort. You've been here for just over a month, I don't believe you get to make the call on NEVER

maybe instead of just raw damage to try and deal with the zerging and safety in numbers by killing them, how about a more "control heavy" approach.
Im just spitballing here:
- hard CC have longer duration on you when zerging (aao related?) or just when X ammount of players are on an oRvR BO (not keep). Simply just to used the full meaning of the word Crowdcontrol, to control the masses.

Don't compare apples to pears - pug WB's is NOT equal to a zerging blob. A blob is more then one WB.
So conclusion; organised guild WB's never won against the huge mass zerging blob (that is 50+ players mindless zergning) before this new AOE was implimated.

[anarchypark]

The portal system is much better. Even though it could still be abused it was much better than the blatent xrealming that goes on. Plus you had to work to get into a fort which makes it fairer.

but not working for hours is also good part.
you don't have to worry between RL or fort.

if there is some good idea to balance population except instance blocking...

[Alfa1986]

I would not exaggerate the influence/the effect of aoe in an open field, since any aoe has a radius of action, and at the same time more than 10-15 characters, and usually much less, can hardly get into this radius. Aoe has the only huge advantage only in narrow places, tunnels-funnels (doors / gates of Keep and forts), the same way as when people who stay on oil always have a huge gap in the number of killings in the zone compared to others.

[wonshot]

Why? Why, why, why, why? Please explain to me why smaller numbers should get some kind of an advantage? Sorry, I just don't get it at all. If you are in a small organised guild, then your advantage comes from your organisation, planning, communication, high gear level, etc. In the past this has set the good groups apart from the pugs and it has worked fine. AAO already exists, and that is the incentive, do you really need some kind of handicap as well? If that's the case, give solo-roamers an advantage, because they are often outnumbered. Solo roamers should receive a speed boost, and a damage boost, and have extra armor - to make up for the numbers. We should also considering removing Warbands from the game entirely. Make the maximum group allowed to be 6 man.

There is no "evil blob" man. I have seen the organised guilds do dam well against double numbers in the past before these new changed. Organisation and skill is the weapon of the guilds, numbers is the weapon of the pugs. At some point numbers will overcome organisation - and that's fine!

"Why?" Well because we play on a server where crossrealming is allowed and havily used. So if numbers = victory, guess how the playerbase will react (logging to the outnumbering side)
I agree being in an organized force is an advantage, and I hard agree on that most cases the sheet ammount of players just make fight impossible. atleast with the 24aoe cap you might be able to kill some overextenders, get the first wave before your defensive morales expeire or you run out of hp. before with the 9aoe cap it was not the case, it was busting your criticalmass on 9 random tank targets in a zerg and then hope your critical mass would stick to the same 9 targets.

the examples i gave, were not extreme i think. its a hurdle the zerg/blob/outnumbering force would have to overcome without being detrimental. stopping once in a while to staying together as a pack is nowhere near as deadly as when we saw solo marauders kill warbands because they got crazy damageboosts from AAO

The ideas I gave would have work arounds from the zerg, if they dont stop and repack the zerg both small man groups would have some straglers to prey on in the back, organized warbands would have a chance to face the red sea coming in split, and the zerg would still have a chance to win if they stop and wait for their tail.
"but why" so players actually try and improve themselves and stop going for minimum efforts expecting participation reward handouts and progression for just tagging along in a big unorganized force.

Also what about the situations where the organized players blob up with several guild warbands, so both numbers advantage and organization is against their enemies, should that outcome just be a 100% garenteed loss. I personally play for the "300" laststand moments and if they are none exsistant then I might aswel just go log onto destro and gear up several chars ill never actually use for pvping, right?

[Dalsie]

"but why" so players actually try and improve themselves and stop going for minimum efforts expecting participation reward handouts and progression for just tagging along in a big unorganized force.

Also what about the situations where the organized players blob up with several guild warbands, so both numbers advantage and organization is against their enemies, should that outcome just be a 100% garenteed loss. I personally play for the "300" laststand moments and if they are none exsistant then I might aswel just go log onto destro and gear up several chars ill never actually use for pvping, right?

I can't help but think you are contradicting yourself. Honestly, it sounds like you are just looking for tools to "never lose". One side has to lose. Destro has been zerging for a few weeks, before that order was zerging for a few weeks. The zerg and the populations shifts back and forth.

"try and improve themselves and stop going for minimum efforts expecting participation reward" - this is exactly what you are asking for, minimum effort. You want an advantage to reduce the effort you have to put in, that is exactly what an advantage is.

"I personally play for the "300" laststand moments and if they are none exsistant then I might aswel just go log onto destro and gear up several chars ill never actually use for pvping, right?" - non existent? Come on. We have both seen organised guild warbands, on both sides, eat pugs and zergs for breakfast. Those organised groups often have their "300" moments, even in the old system. But this is not enough for you, you just want a "never lose" handout.

Atleast we can agree that xrealing is massivle part of the problem.