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Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

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adapter
Posts: 115

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#31 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:41 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:38 am
Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 am
This is an MMO, content has to be accessible by as many people as possible.
It absolutely doesn't need to be accessible to as many people as possible. Although modern MMO theory certainly embraces this concept and runs with it, a lot of old school MMO's did not. This was not an accident. Some things are harder to get into than others. Put in the effort, learn the systems, adjust your tactics. This clearly isn't impossible, but it certainly isn't holding any hands either.

If you're looking for a watered down soulless MMO with mass market appeal and accessibility at every turn (usually for sale one might note), we're not that. City sieges are THE end game. That's it. nothing else coming afterward. It makes no sense to simply hand it out on a schedule for everyone to consume. Go do the work, get lucky, and enjoy the journey. Yes it will be frustrating at times, but that pain is the distinct contrast to the joys of accomplishment you'll feel when you reach your goals.

If you just want accessibility and some mindless pug activity you can do with minimal time investment, play scenarios or something.

Wargrimmir, the idea of Sov/War gear not beeing easy to farm is good but it's not what we are experiencing. A lot of players already have 2,3 and even 4 pieces!!! Even low levels on 50RR level already are winning gold bags, the contribution to earn gold bags is not working correctly, something is really off and players are earning the new sets really fast and easy.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#32 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:45 am

adapter wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:41 am
wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:38 am
Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 am
This is an MMO, content has to be accessible by as many people as possible.
It absolutely doesn't need to be accessible to as many people as possible. Although modern MMO theory certainly embraces this concept and runs with it, a lot of old school MMO's did not. This was not an accident. Some things are harder to get into than others. Put in the effort, learn the systems, adjust your tactics. This clearly isn't impossible, but it certainly isn't holding any hands either.

If you're looking for a watered down soulless MMO with mass market appeal and accessibility at every turn (usually for sale one might note), we're not that. City sieges are THE end game. That's it. nothing else coming afterward. It makes no sense to simply hand it out on a schedule for everyone to consume. Go do the work, get lucky, and enjoy the journey. Yes it will be frustrating at times, but that pain is the distinct contrast to the joys of accomplishment you'll feel when you reach your goals.

If you just want accessibility and some mindless pug activity you can do with minimal time investment, play scenarios or something.

Wargrimmir, the idea of Sov/War gear not beeing easy to farm is good but it's not what we are experiencing. A lot of players already have 2,3 and even 4 pieces!!! Even low levels on 50RR level already are winning gold bags, the contribution to earn gold bags is not working correctly, something is really off and players are earning the new sets really fast and easy.
Then why can't you do it?

Seems those groups that are dominating in cities are already coordinated and adapting to the system, and being rewarded for doing so.
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User avatar
adapter
Posts: 115

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#33 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:52 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:45 am
adapter wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:41 am
wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:38 am


It absolutely doesn't need to be accessible to as many people as possible. Although modern MMO theory certainly embraces this concept and runs with it, a lot of old school MMO's did not. This was not an accident. Some things are harder to get into than others. Put in the effort, learn the systems, adjust your tactics. This clearly isn't impossible, but it certainly isn't holding any hands either.

If you're looking for a watered down soulless MMO with mass market appeal and accessibility at every turn (usually for sale one might note), we're not that. City sieges are THE end game. That's it. nothing else coming afterward. It makes no sense to simply hand it out on a schedule for everyone to consume. Go do the work, get lucky, and enjoy the journey. Yes it will be frustrating at times, but that pain is the distinct contrast to the joys of accomplishment you'll feel when you reach your goals.

If you just want accessibility and some mindless pug activity you can do with minimal time investment, play scenarios or something.

Wargrimmir, the idea of Sov/War gear not beeing easy to farm is good but it's not what we are experiencing. A lot of players already have 2,3 and even 4 pieces!!! Even low levels on 50RR level already are winning gold bags, the contribution to earn gold bags is not working correctly, something is really off and players are earning the new sets really fast and easy.
Then why can't you do it?

Seems those groups that are dominating in cities are already coordinated and adapting to the system, and being rewarded for doing so.
I've been trying to, so far i've farmed 14 Royal Crests, but it seems the contribution system is working not as intended and rewarding randomly. So a lot of my fellow destruction players are lucky enough to already have 2 - 4 pieces, i'm happy for them. I'm crossing fingers on every city to get a gold bag, so far, doesn't matter how much contribution i get, a gold bag just don't seem to drop for me, hehe, bad luck.

I try to help you by sharing information that the new gear is getting farmed easily on a daily basis really fast.

On a side note: Stage 3 at Altdorg is giving a little advantage to Order side because of the respawn area.

I hope you are having fun playing the city sieges Wargrimmir! cya around.

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Nefarian78
Posts: 328

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#34 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:05 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:38 am

It absolutely doesn't need to be accessible to as many people as possible. Although modern MMO theory certainly embraces this concept and runs with it, a lot of old school MMO's did not. This was not an accident. Some things are harder to get into than others. Put in the effort, learn the systems, adjust your tactics. This clearly isn't impossible, but it certainly isn't holding any hands either.

If you're looking for a watered down soulless MMO with mass market appeal and accessibility at every turn (usually for sale one might note), we're not that. City sieges are THE end game. That's it. nothing else coming afterward. It makes no sense to simply hand it out on a schedule for everyone to consume. Go do the work, get lucky, and enjoy the journey. Yes it will be frustrating at times, but that pain is the distinct contrast to the joys of accomplishment you'll feel when you reach your goals.

If you just want accessibility and some mindless pug activity you can do with minimal time investment, play scenarios or something.
This isn't about "learning the system" and neither has anything to do with "adjusting tactics" What's the point of pushing zones from 9 to 4am CET if you're just going to get cucked because you didn't queue fast enough? Oh boy, i sure am glad i put in all that effort. This whole thing incentivizes the exact opposite of that. It encourages throwing zones and logging before the last fort to just put a wb together/join one and you then leg it to the queue portal when the Fort Lord is at 15%. Actually, i suppose there is something you can learn about the system: That it's a waste of time and you should wait until the very end so you can skip it. I'm fairly certain you know better than me that the path of least resistance is ALWASY the one taken the most, and that's what (i assume) everyone is seeing.

Acessible END-GAME content doesn't mean you have a watered down soulless MMO. What is the point of city sieges, if the vast majority of the population can't even try them because they only happen at 5am CET? Why even work who knows how long to implement that content just to have it gated behind system that doesn't let most players play it?
City Sieges aren't something that can be compared to Mythic Raiding in WoW, which is something that only the most dedicated and expert player can finish (And still everyone has access to the content), It's as if you were gated out of **** normal raiding. That is just one example, but it's not difficult to make a comparison to lot of other MMOs, from Modern, to OldSchool to downright Ancient MMOs. Not a single successful MMO ever mechanically gated most of it's playerbase out for no reason.

While i fully agree that reaching a sought-after goal, after a long and difficult journey is indeed a moment of joy and accomplishment in an MMO (Hell, i've grinded R14 in Classic WoW, i know something about difficult and long but rewarding objectives) this isn't the kind of difficulty that provides that. There's a difference between "We lost to X guild during the siege, we should prepare ourselves and do better next time, so we can beat them" or "I just need 3 more Cities and i can finally buy my Sov jewel/whatever, i'm so close" and "I played for 7+ straight hours just to get denied even a shot at the endgame" The first two, incentivize wanting to play more, competitiveness, hell even emotional investment. The latter is just extremely demoralizing, it just makes you want to stop trying.

My suggestion was to leave cities open for the entirety of the 12hr lockdown. While, i admit, it's just a bandaid fix, it at least provides most players a shot at the endgame content. It's not going to make it faster, it won't make it easier, and (IMO) it's not going to water it down.

Also...It's literally impossible for tanks to get a contrib bonus higher than 100 (Unless you're lucky and get champ'd). At this rate it's going to take like 70+ city sieges to get the full set.

User avatar
hammerhead
Posts: 73

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#35 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:59 am

All these joys of life have not even touched me. 5 hours to push the fort for someone else, wake up one and a half hours earlier, at least for good luck to get in wagons to see that the city siege is over ...

A simple and elegant solution was to lock city siege in EU/NA prime time, after reaching one of the fractions of a certain amount of global contribution. Roughly speaking, forts passed several times.

This system only encourages xrealming and surrender of zones to the enemy. Which in itself is strange.
(\|)o0(|/)

Grobbok
Legacy RR80
Posts: 411

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#36 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:09 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:38 am
Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 am
This is an MMO, content has to be accessible by as many people as possible.
This was not an accident. Some things are harder to get into than others. Put in the effort, learn the systems, adjust your tactics. This clearly isn't impossible, but it certainly isn't holding any hands either.
this is not about system or tactic, you created system where to play engame players need to play in night, so sleep or play, where is your system or tactic here? the only system or tactic is to set the alarm clock to wake up in the middle of the night. Ye great design. Cheers all sleepless people!
lider of Da fat squigs guild

BeautfulToad
Posts: 395

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#37 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:23 am

Grobbok wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:09 am
wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:38 am
Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 am
This is an MMO, content has to be accessible by as many people as possible.
This was not an accident. Some things are harder to get into than others. Put in the effort, learn the systems, adjust your tactics. This clearly isn't impossible, but it certainly isn't holding any hands either.
this is not about system or tactic, you created system where to play engame players need to play in night, so sleep or play, where is your system or tactic here? the only system or tactic is to set the alarm clock to wake up in the middle of the night. Ye great design. Cheers all sleepless people!
We just need some kind of contribution system. Players who play more will always get more gear. It is pointless saying people should get less stuff if they play 4+ hours a day.

Ideally, I'd like contribution in rvr lakes to build over days or weeks like what happens with bag drops, it means when a city seige does pop, you can almost be guaranteed a spot if you have been running rvr for a long time but are only on for one or two city seiges in a month (like most players).

Right now if you are play an rvr on Monday and miss out on a gold bag, you have a higher probability of a gold bag after doing an rvr a week later.

I'd probably start arguing for more avenues (although, we do have some more dungeons to come for pve endgame stuff) to get endgame gear if a contribution system cant be implemented for city seiges, tbqh. But city seiges are a week old, and I suspect more people will be able to join them in the future, and a lot of stuff will be ironed out.
Last edited by BeautfulToad on Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Goermsi
Posts: 46

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#38 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:32 am

wpc56 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:57 pm
Recommendation:
Add land of the dead or an alternate means to earn royal crest doing open rvr. Or say have a weekly quest to kill 1000 opposite team players in orvr for 2 royal crest... so people can "progress" even if they can't get into city at 3am in the morning.
<3 Make it 10.000 But ... YEAH!!
Everything, that will get ppl out of the warcamp and into the fight.
Whats the need of City?! We alle just want to fight and slay - so why not a small reward?!
Schweinejungs (Drakenwald)
...Kill & Run, cause we can...

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sjemen
Posts: 5

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#39 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:54 am

remove armor pieces from bags pls thanks

anarchypark
Posts: 1401

Re: Feedback: City Siege, suggestions.

Post#40 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:12 pm

12 hours lock could be amazing solution to defend last zones and fort.
delay city siege for your EU friends.
or screw NA city siege by delaying.

at first i thought about account lock like dungeon bosses, instead of world lock.
but it would create scheduled city siege.
that's not war. that's farming.
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