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Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

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Hugatsaga
Posts: 58

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#11 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:22 pm

If +2 mastery works like i think it does, I like the current form of most Sov sets quite a lot. It sort of unlocks lot of new stuff for many classes. Also I'm quite fond of reduced armor pen % from my zeal sov. Some fine tuning might be needed for some sets (and some reworks here and there, off tanks for example) but imo nothing as radical as suggested in this thread.
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1794

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#12 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:14 pm

Chinesehero wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:15 pm
suggestion of SM is super weak.
7proc +AP? what a rubbish compare to invader
and the warlord 7proc +20% block???????who will use a shield with warlord? no eyes see

only the off sov is ok which reduce target 240 spirit resistance
and I think make some related proc to the property of a class
This time the sov set if 100 is full i give 60
I was trying to consider the "weaknesses" and "relatively lack of this or that utility" with some ideas - KOTB + RP + WP + IB + Engi can feed AP to their allies - guess which Order support class has limited options when it comes to providing group with AP? I was considering if this potential new AP feed is too OP or not, but still not sure, values might need to be adjusted. Considering not every group might have a RP with perfect APrune placement, or WP running AP feed, nor IB feeding their oath friend, nor an Engi turret within 30ft + utility tactic - the idea of SM gaining a new way to provide group with extra AP might offer for interesting utility setups and furthermore cement their position as one of the best utility stacked warband tanks on Order.
The Warlord block is the one thing I considered also some time, the set starts as another DPS set, yet the final bonus is there to provide the option of going for some serious extra tankyness if you choose to abandong 2h+WODS potential and instead gain a massive +20 block, in case you need to suddenly switch to a more defensive spec or access the limited tools limited to SM block-requirement abilities. Considering the amount of renown + jewel + gear stacking some tanks need to get to gain something as massive as 20block, it's maybe one of the more OP bonuses in my ideas. And opens options for a very tanky SnB dps-pressure spec. (or you can skip 7th piece if you love your 2hander so much and do usual bonus mixing with different sets)
The offensive set is certainly maybe too OP, assuming they allow the spirit resis debuff to stack with WoH, 240 is opening value, even 200 or 180 might be "good" values.

If any my suggested initial values overperform, they can be adjusted always bit downwards in case something becomes way too strong.

dether
Posts: 9

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#13 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:20 pm

+2 Mastery works like on every other set but the point is those 2 points for a few classes are totaly useless but for other classes open more possibilities.

I think auran tries to make those sets more appealing to go for 6-7 bonuses than mix them.
Some sets are fine the way they are but since some need some rework he went and made changes for all of them i guess to get rid of those +2 masteries mostly.
The problem that i see with those 2masteries is that it may not suit some builds at all and either forcer to play somethign else or just ignore it or try mix the set.

But some sets are more than fine the way they are for some careers

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Hugatsaga
Posts: 58

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#14 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:10 pm

Original poster wanted to make players salivate when looking at the later bonuses. For me thats already done with +2 mastery (plus other stats).

Obviously I’m biased since I've been big fan of extra mastery points since saw tier 2 gear set bonuses in RoR. And I'm only really looking at classes/specs I play myself. But for the sake of example, just listing few quick examples what +2 mastery would do for the classes/specs I play currently:

-WE can get masterful treachery in Witchbrew build without having to sacrifice other useful abilities or tactics (heal debuff, quick stealth, disrupt elixir, knockdown, crit dmg tactic). Even though that doesnt add new active ability it still changes WE playstyle a bit in group setting since now you really want to set up bursts around your 2 stealth skills.
-Zeal can get big m4 grp absorb from Alchemy tree or Winds of Instanity without having to drop anything useful from heal spec.
-2h Swordmaster can get ED + WW without having to drop 2 good tactics from Khaine.
-2h Kotbs can get Overpowering Swing, Focused Mending and still be TANKY utility monster because now you dont have to drop Vigilance.
-For WL and mara can’t really think of anything, but maybe theres some weirdos who play strange builds who can make it work.

In my opinion thats pretty cool: theres plenty of new opportunities for new tactics and new ability buttons to press. In my opinion thats way more interesting than +something passive stat or passive proc that makes your class perform better without you doing anything different. I get that not every class benefits from them same way, thats unfortunate. But still loving the idea of +2 mastery over more passive stats.
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Jabba
Posts: 215

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#15 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:18 pm

Hugatsaga wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:10 pm
Original poster wanted to make players salivate when looking at the later bonuses. For me thats already done with +2 mastery (plus other stats).

Obviously I’m biased since I've been big fan of extra mastery points since saw tier 2 gear set bonuses in RoR. And I'm only really looking at classes/specs I play myself. But for the sake of example, just listing few quick examples what +2 mastery would do for the classes/specs I play currently:

-WE can get masterful treachery in Witchbrew build without having to sacrifice other useful abilities or tactics (heal debuff, quick stealth, disrupt elixir, knockdown, crit dmg tactic). Even though that doesnt add new active ability it still changes WE playstyle a bit in group setting since now you really want to set up bursts around your 2 stealth skills.
-Zeal can get big m4 grp absorb from Alchemy tree or Winds of Instanity without having to drop anything useful from heal spec.
-2h Swordmaster can get ED + WW without having to drop 2 good tactics from Khaine.
-2h Kotbs can get Overpowering Swing, Focused Mending and still be TANKY utility monster because now you dont have to drop Vigilance.
-For WL and mara can’t really think of anything, but maybe theres some weirdos who play strange builds who can make it work.

In my opinion thats pretty cool: theres plenty of new opportunities for new tactics and new ability buttons to press. In my opinion thats way more interesting than +something passive stat or passive proc that makes your class perform better without you doing anything different. I get that not every class benefits from them same way, thats unfortunate. But still loving the idea of +2 mastery over more passive stats.
Same, on heal shammy the +2 is great. As I said earlier, the only set bonus I would change would be the -6% armour pen as it basically forces you to stack armour talis on shammy to get any use out of it, which is not what you want to be doing on shammy in my opinion.
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1794

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#16 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:21 pm

Well thats the issue with 2 mastery points, on some classes it can open 1-2 new builds by gaining one extra ability/tactic there and there - but on various other classes, its basically a dead bonus considering how badly some abilities scale with masteries (say a gain of 1-2% extra tooltip dmg numbers in some cases).
So obviously some classes will be happy, whereas many classes will go "okay, better skip" and keep going with the usual mixing of sets. Which is fine I guess, we have been doing that for years now.
But with Sovereign I was hopeful of some classes having some really good 6-7-8pc bonuses that really make you want to run a full set, but so far apart from 2-4 classes like magus/engi crit procs, rest don't generally feel too interesting as it is now.

I'm just throwing out ideas, majority of them will probably end into the trashcan as is tradition, but maybe some might see light some day and maybe make future PvE sets better or something.
I don't even mind too much if the sets stay as they are now, because then I can grind out 2-3pc Sovereign for stat mixing and decide its enough of endgame city gear grind for me.

dether
Posts: 9

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#17 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:26 pm

The problem with masteries is that for some builds bring something op but for others totally nothing.
Its not a bad idea no one said that but having to farm this set for a year as a casual and get nothing from those 2 points compared to some other class it may feel bad .
Its a class design issue atm more than a set design if some classes it would be nice if all classes had more options like those you mention so its a cool design but not fair i think

User avatar
zakgrin
Posts: 38

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#18 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:02 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:19 pm
kmark101 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:54 pm
blechkautz wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:00 pm

Maybe you should say what's awfull instead of dropping this a passive agressive oneliner?
It's not passive aggressive, but for a start whoever is not placing weaponskill into the IB's offensive set bonus has such a tiny knowledge about the class that it's pointless to make any kind of discussion. In other words, people with zero knowledge of classes should not give suggestions. I'm sorry if my comment sounded offensive, it just pissed me off for a second. :)
A class that has access to ST armor debuff ability, a morale 1 armor debuff ability (stacking) and self buff to WS, and you want how much more of WS?
I looked through various IB gear sets, couldn't found WS anywhere IIRC, but feel free to prove me wrong or go make your own thread about IB gear suggestions since you are not posting anything of value here?
IBs armor debuff ability has not kept up with gear changes in this game. At max grudge you are only going to knock off about 1k armor. With the new gear sets plus armor pots, medium armor classes are going to be running close to or over 5k armor. At that point a 1k armor debuff does little to nothing. IBs do not have a single ability that does magic damage unlike every other tank in this game, so WS is hugely important for us to do alright damage against tanky and squishy targets alike.
Zakgrin - rr80 Ironbreaker
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Chinesehero
Legacy RR80
Posts: 885

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#19 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:41 am

Aurandilaz wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:14 pm
Chinesehero wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:15 pm
suggestion of SM is super weak.
7proc +AP? what a rubbish compare to invader
and the warlord 7proc +20% block???????who will use a shield with warlord? no eyes see

only the off sov is ok which reduce target 240 spirit resistance
and I think make some related proc to the property of a class
This time the sov set if 100 is full i give 60
I was trying to consider the "weaknesses" and "relatively lack of this or that utility" with some ideas - KOTB + RP + WP + IB + Engi can feed AP to their allies - guess which Order support class has limited options when it comes to providing group with AP? I was considering if this potential new AP feed is too OP or not, but still not sure, values might need to be adjusted. Considering not every group might have a RP with perfect APrune placement, or WP running AP feed, nor IB feeding their oath friend, nor an Engi turret within 30ft + utility tactic - the idea of SM gaining a new way to provide group with extra AP might offer for interesting utility setups and furthermore cement their position as one of the best utility stacked warband tanks on Order.
The Warlord block is the one thing I considered also some time, the set starts as another DPS set, yet the final bonus is there to provide the option of going for some serious extra tankyness if you choose to abandong 2h+WODS potential and instead gain a massive +20 block, in case you need to suddenly switch to a more defensive spec or access the limited tools limited to SM block-requirement abilities. Considering the amount of renown + jewel + gear stacking some tanks need to get to gain something as massive as 20block, it's maybe one of the more OP bonuses in my ideas. And opens options for a very tanky SnB dps-pressure spec. (or you can skip 7th piece if you love your 2hander so much and do usual bonus mixing with different sets)
The offensive set is certainly maybe too OP, assuming they allow the spirit resis debuff to stack with WoH, 240 is opening value, even 200 or 180 might be "good" values.

If any my suggested initial values overperform, they can be adjusted always bit downwards in case something becomes way too strong.
if warlord add 20% block, no one will use def sov

lleri
Posts: 1

Re: Sovereign set redesign ideas/feedback

Post#20 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:25 am

Hugatsaga wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:10 pm

-WE can get masterful treachery in Witchbrew build without having to sacrifice other useful abilities or tactics (heal debuff, quick stealth, disrupt elixir, knockdown, crit dmg tactic). Even though that doesnt add new active ability it still changes WE playstyle a bit in group setting since now you really want to set up bursts around your 2 stealth skills.
I don't think so: RoR.builders - Witch Elf. +2 Treachery change nothing.

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