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Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

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satanlol
Posts: 17

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#81 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:04 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:10 pm
We had just yesterday interesting city siege, our order mix of 2 guilds running together as WB (TUP/Zerg), vs one of the best Destro warband guilds (mostly just 1 guild roster) - Pain and Pleasure.
So they bring 3 maras, 2 Sorcs, 2 Squigs, 1 Choppa, solid chosen/bork +2 BG setup. Obviously Order will have hard time getting any morales vs 3 Mara drains, and the coordinated m2 drop from 3 mara+2sorc is already at 6k dmg, add few borks+chosens and it gets easily towards 10k morale drop values with tank m3s.

So they do their usual "dump morales" and apparently it is not enough to get kills since Order is spreading, staying loose, not packed anywhere, at worst some tank loses 7-9k HP and almost dies before potting + healed back up.
End result is this

Image

Morales do not decide fights (unless enemy is playing in a way where they can all be morale bombed), and if your whole plan is to dump morales to secure win, it is no guarantee of victory.
Thanks for posting this sober and honest analysis of the instance Auran, I was on the receiving end in that Altdorf siege and you said it all.

A few weeks back we (PnP) faced TUP in an Altdorf instance and we won Stage 1 and 2 in a convincing way and then lost stage 3 due to an excellent push from their side. But what happens next is the most important thing.

TUP/Phalanx adapted and learned from their mistakes, now when they face us they know exactly how to approach the fight. If we do X they answer with Y, if we do A they reply with B. Instead of running to the forums and yelling nerf Destro morale game they adapted and came up with multiple ways to fight our composition and strategy. Even though we have won some fair fights against them in open environment we have felt how they changed the game plan and mentality when fighting us and this is what the game is all about.

I think we all agree that Destro has the morale advantage and that Order has the damage and healing advantage and that’s the way of the game. Both sides just need to make sure to utilize the tools they are given to improve and adapt.

I won’t run to the forums and yell nerf Order raw damage and healing becuase of that embarrassing defeat yesterday, I rather do as TUP/Phalanx did, they adapted in one-two weeks to our playstyle and now it’s our turn to adjust and overcome them!

Thanks for the ass whooping yesterday Phalanx/TUP. It’s a wake up call for us!

Claustro from PnP

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normanis
Posts: 559
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Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#82 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:18 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:10 pm
We had just yesterday interesting city siege, our order mix of 2 guilds running together as WB (TUP/Zerg), vs one of the best Destro warband guilds (mostly just 1 guild roster) - Pain and Pleasure.
So they bring 3 maras, 2 Sorcs, 2 Squigs, 1 Choppa, solid chosen/bork +2 BG setup. Obviously Order will have hard time getting any morales vs 3 Mara drains, and the coordinated m2 drop from 3 mara+2sorc is already at 6k dmg, add few borks+chosens and it gets easily towards 10k morale drop values with tank m3s.

So they do their usual "dump morales" and apparently it is not enough to get kills since Order is spreading, staying loose, not packed anywhere, at worst some tank loses 7-9k HP and almost dies before potting + healed back up.
End result is this

Image

Morales do not decide fights (unless enemy is playing in a way where they can all be morale bombed), and if your whole plan is to dump morales to secure win, it is no guarantee of victory.
clearly shows mara op top dps, ( and who yelled buff maras fluff damage) 2 good sorces is behind.
order bw is op class itself , so its will be always order meta. ather clases is shadow or neeed tear apart ases to reach bw.

Grognir
Posts: 44

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#83 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:48 pm

Thanks for posting real situation feedback Satanlol and Aurandilaz, it is inspiring!

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 6554
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Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#84 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:50 pm

We should add a separate column for siege weapon damage is what screenshots like that tell me.
Image
[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

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Wam
Legacy RR80
Posts: 653

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#85 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:15 pm

satanlol wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:04 pm
Aurandilaz wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:10 pm
We had just yesterday interesting city siege, our order mix of 2 guilds running together as WB (TUP/Zerg), vs one of the best Destro warband guilds (mostly just 1 guild roster) - Pain and Pleasure.
So they bring 3 maras, 2 Sorcs, 2 Squigs, 1 Choppa, solid chosen/bork +2 BG setup. Obviously Order will have hard time getting any morales vs 3 Mara drains, and the coordinated m2 drop from 3 mara+2sorc is already at 6k dmg, add few borks+chosens and it gets easily towards 10k morale drop values with tank m3s.

So they do their usual "dump morales" and apparently it is not enough to get kills since Order is spreading, staying loose, not packed anywhere, at worst some tank loses 7-9k HP and almost dies before potting + healed back up.
End result is this

Image

Morales do not decide fights (unless enemy is playing in a way where they can all be morale bombed), and if your whole plan is to dump morales to secure win, it is no guarantee of victory.
Thanks for posting this sober and honest analysis of the instance Auran, I was on the receiving end in that Altdorf siege and you said it all.

A few weeks back we (PnP) faced TUP in an Altdorf instance and we won Stage 1 and 2 in a convincing way and then lost stage 3 due to an excellent push from their side. But what happens next is the most important thing.

TUP/Phalanx adapted and learned from their mistakes, now when they face us they know exactly how to approach the fight. If we do X they answer with Y, if we do A they reply with B. Instead of running to the forums and yelling nerf Destro morale game they adapted and came up with multiple ways to fight our composition and strategy. Even though we have won some fair fights against them in open environment we have felt how they changed the game plan and mentality when fighting us and this is what the game is all about.

I think we all agree that Destro has the morale advantage and that Order has the damage and healing advantage and that’s the way of the game. Both sides just need to make sure to utilize the tools they are given to improve and adapt.

I won’t run to the forums and yell nerf Order raw damage and healing becuase of that embarrassing defeat yesterday, I rather do as TUP/Phalanx did, they adapted in one-two weeks to our playstyle and now it’s our turn to adjust and overcome them!

Thanks for the ass whooping yesterday Phalanx/TUP. It’s a wake up call for us!

Claustro from PnP
Always adapt and analysis... we run pure old school vs zerg orvr setup... and there was some issues, there was issues with people being lowbies on order, under geared, under renown, and stylistically from swapping sides not "switched on" enough and following what i told them enough...
same with orvr and running 7 bws. Setup is very important.

First result is engineer become banned class and kicked to the curb because it couldnt compete and its CC/Utility not on par if not bringing enough pressure... so that spot is replaced by something more productive

Second Result was bringing alternative setups where it's more mixed and less stacked... this gives enemy more problems and issues to think about, as its easy to counter something which is overstacked as it forces you into a very narrow playstyle. With our current setup and style we force the enemy to have to work a bit more as its more flexible. Nobody is unbeatable, alot depends on setup and players knowing class and style.

If we was doing same on destro, i dont think there is much on order which would stand a chance, maybe a couple groups have half a chance with gear advantage before we fine tuned ourselves... I think morale drain is OP but if it gets nerfed too much then order will be too OP, so middle ground is hard to get just right. Having played with and against it. It shouldnt be neutered like ZDPS, just adjusted slightly imo... neutering will really screw balance.

we have 3 setups on order... one is a bit lolzy and obsolete but can serve a purpose... one is being worked on and is kinda okay, and the other is more suited to cities... I also got theorycraft setups for total cheese which would be very lololol OP one trick pony and get stuff nerfed into ground if people put enough effort into making, because i know how deadly it would be but issue would be lack of people's commitment and skill level to play certain classes as there is not enough good ones of them on server... and its pretty easy to play just people play things half arsed most the time and want to slack instead of be OCD and pro active non stop 8-) :twisted:
Wamizzle Guild Leader [TUP]
Wamizzle Guild Leader [The Unlikely Plan]

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Jeliel80
Posts: 75

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#86 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:38 pm

You're lucky that you can mix it now, because before the zealot punt nerf you were just doomed to bw stack, kite and am pump to solar flare, to have a chance...
Still, a tune down of mara drain is a long way coming.
http://www.seventhlegion.net/
Jeliell - RP 85
Jel - WP 83
Jelyel - DoK 82

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Acidic
Posts: 1640
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Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#87 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:09 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:50 pm
We should add a separate column for siege weapon damage is what screenshots like that tell me.
I strongly doubt Those top numbers have anything to do with cannons after watching claustro’s stream
Last edited by Acidic on Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Harkanor
Posts: 44

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#88 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:24 pm

No weapon damage here, that's what Order bw in bombing wb usually do in city.

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pepperoni420
Posts: 22

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#89 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:27 pm

Won every single city i've done with destro alliance warband.

6man guilds completely dominating pro orvr warband guilds in these city instances, a disappointing lack of challenge.

Nerf morales.

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toffikx
Posts: 279

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#90 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:40 pm

pepperoni420 wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:27 pm
6man guilds completely dominating pro orvr warband guilds in these city instances, a disappointing lack of challenge.
Sensing a potential salt mine.

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