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Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1814

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#101 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:04 pm

jasonX wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:11 am
I would make a post over this since having played both sides on a warband scale gives me a wide perspective but I know that I will waste my breath just as I did on my Shadow Warrior post.

Just a tip. Among all the imbalance in moralepump between the two factions please add the shaman aoe AP drain that leaves Order DPS gimped and unable to do systainable fluff dmg.
If a destro warband played optimally there is no way to beat it. If you did trust me they were not playing optimally. So no morale and no fluff dmg. I guess using blast pots and crossing fingers is the last resort hahaha.
Pretty sure the aoe AP drain is bugged still, so either you are hallucating or I have missed some bug fix report in some patch notes saying it is now fixed.
I have some times been st drained on my WL, but against that I can AP pot easily, and my 18 AP cost Slash is also hard to totally prevent even with 1-2 ap drains up.
3-4 Maras running their AP drain tactic is then another thing entirely. (good luck finding 4 good maras on Destro who will take team utility tools + warband victory tools instead of all running their own luldps specs)

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jasonX
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Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#102 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:28 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:04 pm
Pretty sure the aoe AP drain is bugged still, so either you are hallucating or I have missed some bug fix report in some patch notes saying it is now fixed.
I have some times been st drained on my WL, but against that I can AP pot easily, and my 18 AP cost Slash is also hard to totally prevent even with 1-2 ap drains up.
3-4 Maras running their AP drain tactic is then another thing entirely. (good luck finding 4 good maras on Destro who will take team utility tools + warband victory tools instead of all running their own luldps specs)
So slash spamming is the road to victory! haha ok dude cheers! no reason to keep debating this....
Gitbane 81RR Choppa, proud guild master of Wispers of Mutiny
Gitbaner 77RR Chosen, tankier version of Gitbane
Gitbaneous 80RR sorc, heavy and tanky bomber mode.
Ethilia 84RR SW (too much nerf, RIP :()
Gitbaneus 81rr BW
Gitbone 77rr Slayer

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1814

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#103 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:40 pm

jasonX wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:28 pm


So slash spamming is the road to victory! haha ok dude cheers! no reason to keep debating this....
You have both RP and WP in your party feeding you AP nonstop?
You have BW with self AP return ability?
You have shitton of morales that can return AP if you really are losing fights because of AP...
You have 2 AP pots you can pretty much use every min or so.
You have quite large variety of AP feeding jewelry as well.

Like if you just started playing Slayer in t4 and are now out of AP, the issue is probably at your end. Check that the WP and RP in your party are running right tactics.

I really don't know in what pug guild you are playing, but there is lot class synergies you can fit into a party to feed AP. Your Engi can deploy a turret which will feed lot of AP to people around it. Your Knight can even run a meh AP aura if the AP is super super low.
My whole Slayer and Choppa AoE builds are built around high AP jewelry choices so I can spam my 45 cost finishers with ease.

jasonX
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Posts: 178

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#104 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:46 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:40 pm
I really don't know in what pug guild you are playing, but there is lot class synergies you can fit into a party to feed AP. Your Engi can deploy a turret which will feed lot of AP to people around it. Your Knight can even run a meh AP aura if the AP is super super low.
My whole Slayer and Choppa AoE builds are built around high AP jewelry choices so I can spam my 45 cost finishers with ease.
RP buff is static on the ground none in their right mind would stay static on slayer,
BW AP gain will reduce your dmg by 40% when used burning combustion
destro have the exact same morales
destro have the exact same pots
destro have the exact same jewelery.
engis suck for city
knight AP aura is 20 ap per 5 SECONDS and chosens have exactly the same

So all this to counter 1 shammy ability with no mirror in order.

Man you really failed bad at maths at school right?

P.S.: which guild were u in you said? we might turn to destro if order zerg takes heart and I need to know where to find ya to prove my point.
Gitbane 81RR Choppa, proud guild master of Wispers of Mutiny
Gitbaner 77RR Chosen, tankier version of Gitbane
Gitbaneous 80RR sorc, heavy and tanky bomber mode.
Ethilia 84RR SW (too much nerf, RIP :()
Gitbaneus 81rr BW
Gitbone 77rr Slayer

jasonX
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Posts: 178

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#105 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:48 pm

jasonX wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:46 pm
Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:40 pm
I really don't know in what pug guild you are playing, but there is lot class synergies you can fit into a party to feed AP. Your Engi can deploy a turret which will feed lot of AP to people around it. Your Knight can even run a meh AP aura if the AP is super super low.
My whole Slayer and Choppa AoE builds are built around high AP jewelry choices so I can spam my 45 cost finishers with ease.
RP buff is static on the ground none in their right mind would stay static on slayer, WPs have to ditch a tactic to get this one and if you are even close to having a clue about WP build you would realize the impact of ditching a tactic from the core tree to get the group ap gain.
BW AP gain will reduce your dmg by 40% when used burning combustion
destro have the exact same morales
destro have the exact same pots
destro have the exact same jewelery.
engis suck for city
knight AP aura is 20 ap per 5 SECONDS and chosens have exactly the same

So all this to counter 1 shammy ability with no mirror in order.

Man you really failed bad at maths at school right?

P.S.: which guild were u in you said? we might turn to destro if order zerg takes heart and I need to know where to find ya to prove my point.
Gitbane 81RR Choppa, proud guild master of Wispers of Mutiny
Gitbaner 77RR Chosen, tankier version of Gitbane
Gitbaneous 80RR sorc, heavy and tanky bomber mode.
Ethilia 84RR SW (too much nerf, RIP :()
Gitbaneus 81rr BW
Gitbone 77rr Slayer

User avatar
Aurandilaz
Posts: 1814

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#106 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:17 pm

jasonX wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:46 pm
Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:40 pm
I really don't know in what pug guild you are playing, but there is lot class synergies you can fit into a party to feed AP. Your Engi can deploy a turret which will feed lot of AP to people around it. Your Knight can even run a meh AP aura if the AP is super super low.
My whole Slayer and Choppa AoE builds are built around high AP jewelry choices so I can spam my 45 cost finishers with ease.
RP buff is static on the ground none in their right mind would stay static on slayer,
BW AP gain will reduce your dmg by 40% when used burning combustion
destro have the exact same morales
destro have the exact same pots
destro have the exact same jewelery.
engis suck for city
knight AP aura is 20 ap per 5 SECONDS and chosens have exactly the same

So all this to counter 1 shammy ability with no mirror in order.

Man you really failed bad at maths at school right?

P.S.: which guild were u in you said? we might turn to destro if order zerg takes heart and I need to know where to find ya to prove my point.
tell your RP to predict where the main fight will be so most of the party can receive the AP rune, easy
BW will do instant Nova/Sear to get back the lost resource, your dmg drop is minor and last 1s
Good Engi does fine in city, they need good situation awareness and can still initiate fights with pulls as well solid arsenal of debuffs.
Knight aura is last resort, if somehow the WP+RP in your party aren't enough for you with their nonstop AP feeds.

I am assuming you are somehow facing a horde of Shamans that somehow all live long enough to reach M3 with that 100 AP drain which you can counter with 1 AP pot, and then they rotate the next M3 which you again counter with AP pot... (why are they using M3s on you is a mystery considering normally they use M2 to keep their parties alive against proper Order warband dmg outputs)
Or are they ST draining you nonstop? Because AM does the same. Or is it the Mara AP drain? You would need 3-4 Maras hitting same targets nonstop to make it function, in which case it is a valid strategy to use, but means less dmg done overall due to picking debuffing over dmg approach.
If the enemy is stacking shamans, their total healing output will diminish due to lack of Doks and Zealots. So I have hard time trying to understand how in the hell some shamans are somehow rotating m3s on your slayer nonstop.
I'm at 43 AP/sec regen on Slayer, most of time zero issues with AP, I could go maybe up to 47 but that might be excessive.
If you are hitting abilities nonstop, you do not leave enough time for your AP to recover between GDC use, meaning you need to wait 1.3-1.5s between ability use instead of spamming then nonstop. The AP regen cycle is not in sync with GCD cycle, you need to hold occasionally with the button smashing and ability queueing if you want to prevent from dropping to 0 AP.

you already know in what guild I am in if you have read this thread at all

teiloh
Posts: 238

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#107 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:20 am

Nefarian78 wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:13 am


It's pretty clear you are intent on keeping on thinking the grass is greener on the other side. The only thing i can suggest at this point is to actually try fighting or watching serious 24v24 fight between organized WBs such as TUP/Zerg/Thundercats in Order or PnP/LoB+Capulet+Exodus for Destro. You'll realize very, very quickly what you think is so op right now isn't actually that op.
imo, it's clear that my understanding of this game and its mechanics are solid even after a hiatus. I needed baseline numbers to work with so I took yours. The abilities I mentioned do what they do as listed in the tooltip, and would produce the expected results if used. So I'm still not seeing evidence of Destro producing less healing and damage; in practice, the reverse is probably true. It's just that Destro doesn't really seem to understand its strongest abilities.
Last edited by teiloh on Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

teiloh
Posts: 238

Re: Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

Post#108 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:25 am

Bozzax wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:53 am
ID ——GON
Instant ——- 2s cast
5s CD —— 10s cd (so SL has 2 active)
Proc ——- Dot so no proc
Undef ——- Defendable
5-70% pen ——- no resist bypass

When a sorc uses GON his dps drops. ID make slayers virtually immune to challenge on top of being a pressure tool.

Bud you need to read the advice you got.
Conveniently forgot to mention that:

Sorcs are ranged.
GON always ticks 5 times, not 2-4 (3 average)
GON is the first ability in a tree
Unless it was nerfed, GON is not a DoT but a pulsing DD
Undefendable is an overhyped "bonus". Unless you're specifically targeting tanks, it doesn't matter
5-70% pen against 40-95% absorb vs. no pen vs 20-30% average spirit resists after debuff

And it probably hits a lot harder than ID, if the stat contributions are normal and the delves are not inaccurate.

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