Return of Reckoning

convexte wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:24 am This is really funny.I dont want mirroring, and devs said that mirroring is bad, but sorc got m2, BO got cd decrease which way better than SM one, etc.But choppa pull?mara aoe KD?tank morale pump tactics?Its all on destro, and its fine

We discussing morale play here, and right now its pretty unbalanced cause destro can negate all order morale gain with maras (especially with 24t cap in narrow city enviroments), while having uncounterable heavy morale drop + a lot of cc's which can save them untill they get their morales.

Damn, that's crazy. The Choppa already has a CD decreaser, so that's two CD decreasers for Destro and just one for Order on one of the least popular classes, vs Destros most popular? Seems like farming out Blurring Shock to BOs was a little too much as well. Seems like another Order advantage turned into a Destro advantage - along with CD increasers and Pounces.

teiloh wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:43 am

Envy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:13 pm If you want balance then you will have to give more destro classes pounce , give Blorc a M2 pounce , give Mara a pounce LOL. Give Sorc more cast range to mirror BW , the list can go on and on about how some of your classes are stronger too. Slayer for example outclasses choppas so much with its build up time ability and other tools in its kit. What a joke this post is.

You'll have to give SWs Run Away!, buff Order pulls, put more BW damage on Corporeal with the Engi, improve IB punts and outgoing heal debuff, move RP heal debuff proc to another class, make WH bullets proc on all attacks etc.

Destro is hands down better than Order, and I play both sides.

sorry my words no offense to noone, byt if sw and am will got run away tactic they basicly :| any destro class.
rp and zealot healdebuffs is singletarget nomore aoe ( tactics)
wh spaming torment nonstop

Well well... we can say this topic generates a lot of debates!

So far I would like to thanks those who have understood that my concerne is about building or draining morale balance between side only. When looking at all the tactics / abilities available, we can objectively say that destro have more of them, and the debate I wanted to start was to discuss if it was a real advantage or not for them, not only whining.

There were very interesting replies, proposal or point of view. But unfortunately (and maybe as we should have expected) some people made emotive shortcuts thinking we wanted to nerf destro or Mara, starting to compare every abilities between sides or else... for them sorry guys, that is not the topic.

For those who try to make a constructive discussion, I must be honest and say that when I read the answer from Wargrimnir, I finally think it is a sterile debate if devs are not even ready to get involved in this thread.

normanis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:52 am

teiloh wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:43 am

Envy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:13 pm If you want balance then you will have to give more destro classes pounce , give Blorc a M2 pounce , give Mara a pounce LOL. Give Sorc more cast range to mirror BW , the list can go on and on about how some of your classes are stronger too. Slayer for example outclasses choppas so much with its build up time ability and other tools in its kit. What a joke this post is.

You'll have to give SWs Run Away!, buff Order pulls, put more BW damage on Corporeal with the Engi, improve IB punts and outgoing heal debuff, move RP heal debuff proc to another class, make WH bullets proc on all attacks etc.

Destro is hands down better than Order, and I play both sides.

sorry my words no offense to noone, byt if sw and am will got run away tactic they basicly :| any destro class.
rp and zealot healdebuffs is singletarget nomore aoe ( tactics)
wh spaming torment nonstop

Run Away would be extremely strong on both classes, but DPS Sham is essentially a DPS AM with Run Away and a higher CD heal debuff. It's also a smaller target. Same goes with the SH. It's a pretty iconic Goblin racial tactic though, High Elves get Centuries of Trash instead.

Everytime new players come to this server we have the same lame discussion about overperforming here and overperforming there.

Oculta wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:18 am Everytime new players come to this server we have the same lame discussion about overperforming here and overperforming there.

Discussion about overperform/undeperform of some classes is here for over half year. It wasnt aressed by staff or wasnt said if they plan to do anything to balance things so topic back from time to time.

I see a lot of people comparing wh to mara instead of it's actual destro counterpart, which is pretty much equal in it's ability to pump/drain morale. And while i understand that this is meant to be a discussion about morales it can't be taken out of context, where bw deathball doesn't need them to begin with, unless they are getting hardline outclassed in coordination, while in an open area, where destro can spread enough.

Tbh no shaman runs that run away tactic in city LOL.

For the first 2 weeks of city seige you know destro straight lost to that bomb comp that bombling was mainly running heavy BW some slayers. What did my guild do ? We learned how to deal with it with spreading and new strats.

Why can't you guys just learn to adapt and deal with it with changing positioning and strats you use instead of going to the nerf destro route.

Yo me it seems like you guys just wont coordinate with eachother or try new strats or admit when you're being outclassed there was no forum posts about that comp bombling was using atleast from my guild and our alliance. Instead we learn how to play against it.

I don't know I think you guys can beat us , like you know zunig has taken some wins from us albeit they're very close fights its not one sided stomps for us.

Envy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:54 pm Tbh no shaman runs that run away tactic in city LOL.

For the first 2 weeks of city seige you know destro straight lost to that bomb comp that bombling was mainly running heavy BW some slayers. What did my guild do ? We learned how to deal with it with spreading and new strats.

Why can't you guys just learn to adapt and deal with it with changing positioning and strats you use instead of going to the nerf destro route.

Yo me it seems like you guys just wont coordinate with eachother or try new strats or admit when you're being outclassed there was no forum posts about that comp bombling was using atleast from my guild and our alliance. Instead we learn how to play against it.

I don't know I think you guys can beat us , like you know zunig has taken some wins from us albeit they're very close fights its not one sided stomps for us.

Problem is ridiculous gap in mroale play between order and destro.

I run my tanks either confined bomb grps sticking together or spread out - no matter what i havent been able to reach m2 - not mention higher ones - while we got morale bomb from destro [sometime i even see enemy tanks using ID!!!]. So thats that. I have run with VII, WoM, TC - no matter what tactic and how good players are around morale is game changer and inability to even reach it - not mention using it - is game breaking for some.

We had just yesterday interesting city siege, our order mix of 2 guilds running together as WB (TUP/Zerg), vs one of the best Destro warband guilds (mostly just 1 guild roster) - Pain and Pleasure.
So they bring 3 maras, 2 Sorcs, 2 Squigs, 1 Choppa, solid chosen/bork +2 BG setup. Obviously Order will have hard time getting any morales vs 3 Mara drains, and the coordinated m2 drop from 3 mara+2sorc is already at 6k dmg, add few borks+chosens and it gets easily towards 10k morale drop values with tank m3s.

So they do their usual "dump morales" and apparently it is not enough to get kills since Order is spreading, staying loose, not packed anywhere, at worst some tank loses 7-9k HP and almost dies before potting + healed back up.
End result is this



Morales do not decide fights (unless enemy is playing in a way where they can all be morale bombed), and if your whole plan is to dump morales to secure win, it is no guarantee of victory.