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[SW] Rain of Steel

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CeeJay89
Posts: 134

[SW] Rain of Steel

Post#1 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:44 am

Shadow Warriors Scout spec is already in a pretty bad spot, and the Morale 4 is pretty garbage in the path.

I would just like to suggest a mirror to the Squig Herder's Lots of Shootin'. As it stands, Rain of Steel does approximately 2190 over the course of a 10s channel. It's pretty garbage. Lots of Shootin' is an instant 2400 in a 20ft AoE, which honestly is silly powerful for how easy it is to coordinate three Squig Herders during a siege or defense. For the most part, SH and SW's Big Shootin' and Scout trees are relatively identical, with SW having higher base damage to offset the pet damage/utility, with the exception of the Rank 4 Morale which is very much in SH's favor.

By changing Rain of Steel to mirror Lots of Shootin', it might incentivize some coordinated groups to run Scout spec SW groups for a powerful Rank 4 Morale during sieges/defenses. There is no equivalent Morale 4 on any Order character with the instant true damage Lots of Shootin' provides, and I'd rather see Rain of Steel be useful, as opposed to proposing a nerf to Lots of Shootin'.

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teiloh
Posts: 234

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#2 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:35 pm

SW doesn't have the morale builder of SH though

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1074

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#3 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:40 pm

SW had a decent m2 Outrider patrol. 100ft range 20ft AE 1200 damage. Extremely similar to Lot's of Arrows m4 sh. Outrider patrol needed to be organized thou to get the most out of it. But RoR changed it to mirror the squig herder.... So yeah... You used to have the same thing but got for free (no spec points) and was as low as a morale 2 so it was rapid fast and could be used in any spec. Being rapid fast is Amazing but at the cost of raw damage output. None of that matter's now since RoR took it away.

So Rain of Steel should be coordinated with a siege defense on the opposing tanks that are on the ram. Take 4 scouts with Rain of Steel along with a organized push on the tanks. Rain of Steel coordinated is a area denial morale effect. What do you do in the meantime while building morale? Single target assist and blow up targets before the healer's can react. You can even target tanks If you build correctly and organize correctly with 4 scouts. The endgame in warhammer online is all about organization and coordination.
Last edited by footpatrol2 on Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CeeJay89
Posts: 134

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#4 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:56 pm

footpatrol2 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:40 pm
SW had a decent m2 Outrider patrol. 100ft range 20ft AE 1200 damage. It needed to be organized thou to get the most out of it. But RoR changed it to mirror the squig herder.... So yeah...

So Rain of Steel should be coordinated with a siege defense on the opposing tanks that are on the ram. Take 4 scouts with Rain of Steel along with a push on the tanks. Rain of Steel coordinated is a area denial morale effect.
If you mean the current Rain of Steel, that wouldn't really be useful. Having a character sit stationary for 10s, dealing only 219 damage per second, true or otherwise isn't going to impact anything. It does less than Lots of Shootin' over the entire 10s period. It doesn't even have a bigger AoE. With Lots of Shootin', four SHs can walk out, target the ram, and kill everyone on it faster than Oil before anyone even know they're there. There's not a whole lot in the game that's going to withstand 9600 true damage.

I would consider this different if the Scout path were somehow superior to Big Shootin' path...but both paths are irrelevant, and not very good. However, the Squig Herder has a niche use at least. To top that off, the specs are for all intents and purposes identical in what they do. SW has more base damage, but SH has more utility.

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1074

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#5 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:06 am

SW scout should have access to the range knockdown like it did on live. That was the big difference. SW Being part of the morale bomb also at m2 was better for SW then SH. RoR took that away thou...

All the morale bombs on the SH require m4's.

The morale bombs on SW was on m2 Outrider patrol, and m3 instill fear. The old m4 assault spec is also one of the best morale bombs being 2400 AE 30ft which I think now is defaulted?, and Penetrating Arrow which is OK'ish.

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CeeJay89
Posts: 134

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#6 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:18 am

footpatrol2 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:06 am
SW scout should have access to the range knockdown like it did on live. That was the big difference. SW Being part of the morale bomb also at m2 was better for SW then SH. RoR took that away thou...

All the morale bombs on the SH require m4's.

The morale bombs on SW was on m2 Outrider patrol, and m3 instill fear. The old m4 assault spec is also one of the best morale bombs being 2400 AE 30ft which I think now is defaulted?, and Penetrating Arrow which is OK'ish.
SW has a 1200 + 1200 DoT over 10s in the Skirmish tree, but that's about it. To my knowledge, there isn't a single Order class that does 2400 damage with a Morale instantly, ranged or otherwise (Excluding Engineer's single target Morale 3). Just a few that do it over the course of a DoT.

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1074

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#7 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:41 am

Not true.

Outrider patrol 1200 dmg 20ft AE 100ft range (removed by RoR) replaced with Ambush = Identical to squig goo. Mirror pushing.

Instill fear 1200 dmg 30ft AE at caster

Old Assault m4 2400 dmg 30ft AE at caster (removed by RoR to bring in Shadowstep) imo the old assault m4 was vastly superior. I don't remeber the old assault m4's name. RoR should have defaulted this to the SW. If they didn't well... they should. Shadowstep imo is not that good.

White Lion
Blade and Claw: with full spec points White lion does 1200 damage 20ft AE caster and Pet does 1200 20ft on pet. Pounce with pet.... like you should for a total of 2400 instant damage 20ft AE. White lion also has a morale pump tactic.

Want a deadly mean pouncing morale bomb? Take 4 whitelions. Guard them with swordmaster's and have the swordmaster's pounce with them with Wing's of heaven m2. It's NASTY.

Ironbreaker Axe Slam: 2400 instant damage cone 65ft infront of caster. Cross guard 4 Axe slam ironbreaker's. For a true warhammer dwarven hammer unit.
Runepriest Rune of Skewering: 2400 instant dmg 40ft cone infront of caster.
Witchhunter Divine Blast 2400 instant dmg 65ft infront of caster.

Want a submarine morale bomb? take 4 witchhunter's with divine blast m4.


It sucks that the old warhammer online builder is now gone as you can't reference things. RoR has change the game so much that it's hard to follow what has happened.
Last edited by footpatrol2 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CeeJay89
Posts: 134

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#8 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:46 am

footpatrol2 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:41 am
Not true.

Outrider patrol 1200 dmg 20ft AE 100ft range (removed by RoR) replaced with Ambush = Identical to squig goo. Mirror pushing.

Instill fear 1200 dmg 30ft AE at caster

Old Assault m4 2400 dmg 30ft AE at caster (removed by RoR to bring in Shadowstep) imo the old assault m4 was vastly superior. I don't remeber the old assault m4's name. RoR should have defaulted this to the SW. If they didn't well... they should. Shadowstep imo is not that good.

White Lion
Blade and Claw: with full spec points White lion does 1200 damage 20ft AE caster and Pet does 1200 20ft on pet. Pounce with pet.... like you should for a total of 2400 damage 20ft AE. White lion also has a morale pump tactic.

Ironbreaker Axe Slam: 2400 damage cone 65ft infront of caster.
Runepriest Rune of Skewering: 2400 dmg 40ft cone infront of caster.
Witchhunter Divine Blast 2400 dmg 65ft infront of caster.

Want a submarine morale bomb? take 4 witchhunter's with divine blast m4.


It sucks that the old warhammer online builder is now gone as you can't reference things. RoR has change the game so much that it's hard to follow what has happened.
I was looking at the tooltip damage on the Career builder. If that's true, my mistake. SHs Lots of Shootin' shows 2400 on the Career Builder, so I assumed some of the others were accurate. Axe Slam, Divine Blast, and Rune of Skewering all shows 1600 on the Career Builder.

Still, I'm trying to look at it as a niche use for Scout spec, like it is for Big Shootin'. The 100ft range can be a difference in some circumstances, since you can target the backline. I've seen a few sieges go to s**t because a couple of SHs nailed a large group of healers who packed together, as well as explode a funnel at the keep entrance.

EDIT: Just checked on mine and you're correct about the others.

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1074

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#9 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:50 am

So I'm the guy that started the big shootin squig groups. Previously the server community told me it couldn't be done. Then I did it. There are equally nasty order set ups but they are just different then destro and imo should be.

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CeeJay89
Posts: 134

Re: [SW] Rain of Steel

Post#10 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:24 am

footpatrol2 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:50 am
So I'm the guy that started the big shootin squig groups. Previously the server community told me it couldn't be done. Then I did it. There are equally nasty order set ups but they are just different then destro and imo should be.
I agree with you that there should be differences, but these two classes are already nearly identical in said tree. To top that off, while the nasty morale bombs are present, they require way more coordination then three or four SHs just pumping up and dropping a literal nuke from 100ft away. There's no real counter play to that. I still stand by my suggestion, unless Scout and Big Shootin' are to differ in the near future.

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