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Thoughts on armor appearance changes

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#21 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:51 am

Yep good ol gearhammer v2.0
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#22 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:03 am

Grunbag wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:12 pm When I say files name I don’t talk about the mythic set or piece names ingame .

Items models are labeled by tier . For exemple , the T5 sets (conq / sentinel / darkpromise / invader) are named 05 , 05_A , 05_B , 05_C and 05_D. So helm 05_A is meant to be used with shoulder 05_A , 05_B with 05_B etc . This names are based on the artwork design . This is what I am trying to achieve .

For sovereign , it’s labeled in T6 gear as 06 . Sov Alt is labeled 06_A.

This is for helm and shoulders . Mythic didn’t created a unique body / gloves / boots and belt for each tier set . So there is no 05_A body or 05_C body . All t5 set were meant to be use with the 05 body / boots / gloves and belt .
Same for sovereign who share the 06 body / glove / boots / belt / cloak and have helm and shoulders different for main and alt sov .

You can check the gear artwork on google .
I understand what you mean but i can tell you for sure the appearances dont align with Slayer artworks.
As i said i was making an appearance guide for slayer, trying to find and restore original set designs and what we have now post rework isn't quite that.

A quick example:
Annihilator uses what i assume first T4 artwork type 1, but uses helmet from type 2 artwork instead (the one i can't find, but wanted to restore ingame, unfortunately its now missing gloves and shoulders)
Merc set for multiple classes (checked on Slayer, BW, Choppa) uses T3 pieces. SLayer one also uses shoulers from different artwork.
Vanquisher set is an amalgation of 5 different artworks: boots and belt from the one above, helmet from its alt variant, pants from another T4 artwork and bracers from its alternative variant. Though shoulders are new, never seen them before and not sure what helmet they fit.

The only two sets that follow T4 artworks for slayer so far is regular vendor greens and Conqueror set

I dont think there was any need to do this kind of rework. Everyone was happy and used to what we have. We played with it for years, we spent months farming some apperances that are now either lost or moved higher up for yet another grind.

If you truly want to do best for players - revert the changes as soon as possible and just keep working on it behind the scenes until the rework is fully finished - with hand-picked looks for every set based on artworks and full appearance guide (to publish before update goes live) to help people adapt to the rework.
If you need help finding artworks and figuring out what piece goes where i am always ready to help.
Orkni 85+ (in-game Grock is not me...)
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#23 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:42 am

Mistdancer wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:02 pm
Spoiler:
Aurandilaz wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:48 pm Initial mistake was putting actual endgame gear looks into first T4 sets, butchering old live appearances to give fast easy access and cool looking Mercenary or Dominator and reward people with cool stuff as soon as they entered rank 40+.
Which obviously lead to the situation where by time Vanq was being made, many classes had run out of appearance gear to hand out, or had to resort to more and more shared looks. Further issues with Bloodlord + Invaders, all because the cool looks were already given to lower tier4 gear sets.
This should not have happened in first place, so we would not have current need to resort the mess. But IMO its good that its being resolved now, instead of waiitng for Darkpromise/Tyrant and realizing there is nothing left to give that would not already be in some newbie t4 gear set players already farmed fast in 2016.

People just need to calm down, wait for the rework, and then check where the best "fashion" is and maybe find themselves surprised if the best looks are only gained from higher endgame gearsets instead of doing scs for 3hours and then getting the cool looking Merc/Domi piece and deciding thats the highest level of fashion item...
Also you spend 99% of time in PVP looking at your class from behind, surely a terrible loss if your enemies now notice you being out of fashion when they see you from front.
There is no 1(one) initial mistake. There are many and consecutive. And yes mistakes happen. BUT, adopting the logic that regardless of how many mistakes or mishandles have been done in the past, people "just need to calm down" while another experimental move will wipe their time investment yet again, and then another and another, is a recipe for disaster. No, people do not need to calm down because they are not at fault in the first place. They invest time and they expect at least some semblance of continuity even in an alpha/WIP system. Even at this status this is not a laboratory. It is a pastime. We need to remember that.

In any case, everytime massive changes like this happen, people should be given the opportunity to get refunds on gear.
You "expect" something, you want be rewarded for your "time investment"? Where are coming from to demand anything?
You should feel ashamed for even making such a post.
You had the chance to use nice looking gear on items for many years, which only had this appearance, because people wanted fashion hammer, despite the rather small item pool back then, which is understandable.

Anyone with at least some brain cells knew, that things have to change, when more sets are being released.
You used your gold to look good for a period of time, be grateful about it.
You can expect a list of all appearance swaps to have it easier to see, where your favourite appearance went. The devs don't owe you anything more.

They spend their spare time to rebuild this game, you only consume their work for your enjoyment. You want to value your time commitment higher than theirs? Get your entitlements in check.
Dying is no option.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#24 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:53 am

Grock wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:29 am
Aurandilaz wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:48 pm Initial mistake was putting actual endgame gear looks into first T4 sets, butchering old live appearances to give fast easy access and cool looking Mercenary or Dominator and reward people with cool stuff as soon as they entered rank 40+.
It happened because the plan was to not have as many sets as we have now in order to reduce power creep.
Unfortunately the plan was later obviously thrown out the window and now we have rr80 in city sets completely stomping fresh 40s like in the good old days :\
The power curve is not even close to be as steep as on live.
Most fresh r40 we see now are undergeared people, who farmed their way to 40 during x2 event and lack any pvp experience.
Dying is no option.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#25 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:50 am

it's fashion guys.
shoulder dosen't fit with body suit?
then look at the mirror and get dressed!

alt sov shoulder/helm are better than original in some cases.
but that's fashion, nobody have same taste.

you were lucky to wear it b4 end contents.
how dare u letting me wear high end helm b4 city?
what a **** assholes.

most low tier gears are sharing same skins, not that hard to find what u looking for. even inf gears.
your stacked emblem/medals are enough to buy again.

some cool looking sets are missed, ok.
go farm again? thought u loved farming.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB7, Eng5, RP5, SL6
BG8, Sorc8, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze7, Mara8, BO6, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
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Grunbag
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Posts: 1881

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#26 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:00 am

It’s a endless discussion (and interesting one) and I’ll make sure that all pieces follow the artwork and have texture and model match each other .

The need about rework those appearance is that we used all the gear models we had for merc / dom / vanq / opp / onslaught and we haven’t take care about futur set . So we have no unique set for warlord , Bloodlord , darkpromise and I can’t count the reused model for all other set .

We’ve reached final end game gear and we don’t have gear to add (tyrant hopefully have a unique appearance unused) . That’s why I thought it was time for make a final review of all gear set appearance , the lowered prices might help everyone to purchase gear for appearance only . Nothing is set in the stone yet.
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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#27 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:53 am

Grunbag wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:00 am It’s a endless discussion (and interesting one) and I’ll make sure that all pieces follow the artwork and have texture and model match each other .

The need about rework those appearance is that we used all the gear models we had for merc / dom / vanq / opp / onslaught and we haven’t take care about futur set . So we have no unique set for warlord , Bloodlord , darkpromise and I can’t count the reused model for all other set .

We’ve reached final end game gear and we don’t have gear to add (tyrant hopefully have a unique appearance unused) . That’s why I thought it was time for make a final review of all gear set appearance , the lowered prices might help everyone to purchase gear for appearance only . Nothing is set in the stone yet.
But why roll out unfinished work so early? Making all the previous appearance guides / previews outdated in a single patch without any replacement. Making cool stuff that people used for 4 years suddenly unavailable.

Bunch of new bugs introduced, Dyes don't show on login screen, items can't be dyed even tho everything worked before patch, etc etc etc

Reverit it for now (except conq/doomflayer i guess), let the dust settle.
Take a few weeks/months to finish the work, build the new previews catalogue before the update, so that people can adapt and plan ahead. Don't double down on this please.

Sulorie wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:53 am The power curve is not even close to be as steep as on live.
Most fresh r40 we see now are undergeared people, who farmed their way to 40 during x2 event and lack any pvp experience.
Thats not an argument. Live WAR was example of how to do everything wrong.
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#28 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:20 pm

Grock wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:29 am
Aurandilaz wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:48 pm Initial mistake was putting actual endgame gear looks into first T4 sets, butchering old live appearances to give fast easy access and cool looking Mercenary or Dominator and reward people with cool stuff as soon as they entered rank 40+.
It happened because the plan was to not have as many sets as we have now in order to reduce power creep.
Unfortunately the plan was later obviously thrown out the window and now we have rr80 in city sets completely stomping fresh 40s like in the good old days :\
And whose fever dream was this? Somehow Merc/Domi/Vanq/Oppr would be the endgame gear and then fort/city/dungeon rewards would be just for cosmetics or what?
Pretty sure plan was to bring back all original gear sets + possible some extras, like Beastlord we have had for a while, or even Duellist which is also new one.

The power creep is minimal here compared to live, its absurd that people keep moaning about it.

All gear appearances will be in game, just found from different gear sets. The assumption that your first T4 set or 2nd one would be the ones with the endgame gear looks is laughable. Then wait a few years, and there will be nothing left to hand out when it comes to going after Darkpromise and Tyrant.

also "Muh slayer fashion". I lost lot of fashion on close to dozen alts that I had spend some years on, whatever, the appearances will still be in game and no longer on easy-grind-easy-farm T4 sets but maybe in the Invader or City sets. Or maybe there is something left over for Darkpromise now that the cool stuff is no longer gained by doing 5h scenarios and buying your endgame fashion-Dominator set by running thunder valley.


edit, also it all is still a work-in-process, dont except a handful of devs to change all 24 classes 10 t4 gear sets with 6 pieces each within a few weeks. Thats thousands of items to be checked and appearances resorted.

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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#29 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:34 pm

Aurandilaz wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:20 pm And whose fever dream was this? Somehow Merc/Domi/Vanq/Oppr would be the endgame gear and then fort/city/dungeon rewards would be just for cosmetics or what?
Pretty sure plan was to bring back all original gear sets + possible some extras, like Beastlord we have had for a while, or even Duellist which is also new one.
From what i remember yes Sov was supposed to be cosmetic set for high-end characters. It was supposed to be prestigious status gear, nut just yet another stat grind that everyone gets over with eventually.

Forts during that time weren't even planned to be added, because the idea of shoving hundreds of people in a small zone with tiny gate is a terrible design to begin with (and we've felt it many times). So Invader is ruled out. Vanq/Opp probably weren't planned either because they are just bland Conq/Domi upgrade with no reason to exist other than power creep.

Aurandilaz wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:20 pmAll gear appearances will be in game, just found from different gear sets. The assumption that your first T4 set or 2nd one would be the ones with the endgame gear looks is laughable. Then wait a few years, and there will be nothing left to hand out when it comes to going after Darkpromise and Tyrant.

also "Muh slayer fashion". I lost lot of fashion on close to dozen alts that I had spend some years on, whatever, the appearances will still be in game and no longer on easy-grind-easy-farm T4 sets but maybe in the Invader or City sets. Or maybe there is something left over for Darkpromise now that the cool stuff is no longer gained by doing 5h scenarios and buying your endgame fashion-Dominator set by running thunder valley.


edit, also it all is still a work-in-process, dont except a handful of devs to change all 24 classes 10 t4 gear sets with 6 pieces each within a few weeks. Thats thousands of items to be checked and appearances resorted.
I'm not sure how any of this answers or even related to my points in this thread.
I'm not demanding endgame look for starting sets, in fact i actually endorsed the change of Doomflayer appearance from Conq to Invader.

My two concerns here are:
1) Doing the rework by defaulting to 13 years old filenames which are obviously not following the actual artworks is a bad idea.
2) Rolling the update live in unfinished state means there will be further changes, which means you can't be sure what items you'll need and what to aim for. Theres absolutely no reason to publish it before its ready.

And of course the fact that there's no promised guide/preview. All the previous previews that were made for gear releases (even City Sets!) are now outdated and inaccurate.

Aurandilaz wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:20 pmThe power creep is minimal here compared to live, its absurd that people keep moaning about it.
It is minimal compared to live, but on live it was extreme. Its still bad as it currently is, especially the constant increase of armor values on everything.
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Thoughts on armor appearance changes

Post#30 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:50 pm

Grock wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:34 pm From what i remember yes Sov was supposed to be cosmetic set for high-end characters. It was supposed to be prestigious status gear, nut just yet another stat grind that everyone gets over with eventually.
It was always planned to get all sets up to sov into the game as actual armor sets. Only gear above rr80 is excluded and will only be used as vanity or appearance on certain armor sets.

I have seen the planned stat distribution and the formula behind it and the power curve is very flat. The absolute gain of stats is minimal.
You are not turning into a dps burst monster, because your armor gives 4% more crit or has slightly increased attribute bonus.
Dying is no option.

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