Fort rework ideas

[Bosli]

I think most players would agree that forts are currently the weakest part of the game (except maybe PvE questing). So here I go throwing out some more or less thought-out ideas on how to make forts more interesting. Feel free to add more or discuss points, I might add it to this main post for better reviewing, with a mention and link to your post.

Stage 3
The big problem of the current stage 3 is that the whole zone fight happens in the two funnels that are main gate and postern. Most players just stand still at one spot and spam their few AoE abilities. The only strategies available are morale drops, door blocking and fake pushes. Not only is the gameplay bland, but the massive spam of abilities, spell effects, player models, movement/collision and target cap checks cause both server and client performance issues.
How do we improve that?
One possibility was already tested: the orcapults. I think they have a lot of potential, but they are not the single solution. Throwing attackers up to the fort roof only adds one more entry point that is still in direct "visibility" (client lags) and they are more of a gamble the way they were tested, with single players shooting only themselves up.
A better solution is to actually split both teams to different zone areas and create multiple smaller fights. Defenders will not leave the "blob safety" of the inner fort, because once they are wiped and stuck in jail it is an almost guaranteed loss. Luckily, we already have points of interest: the flags from stage 2. Why not let both teams still capture them in stage 3, and whoever controls a flag has a temporary respawn point, like it is often done in (M)MOFPS games? Attackers would need a lot of zone strategy to actually control all five flags when wiping the defenders, so they all end up in jail. It gives them a lot of "safe chances" to run around capturing flags, dropping on or flanking the attackers and other shenanigans.
Now that we gave the defenders the possibility to roam around the flags, the attackers need a way to actually be able to win the fort when defenders are rushing back to them all the time. And there is one simple thing we can do: no more Lord resets. If the Lords don't heal back up, the attackers still have a way to win with enough wipes damaging the lord before the defenders come back and bomb them out. I even think the Lords shouldn't help the defenders at all on second floor, and just stay in third floor.

At this point we gave both teams a reason to roam, but I don't feel it's enough to make players actually do that. Most don't aim for fun, but for efficiency. They choose the most boring way of doing something simply because it is the most effective (e.g. grinding/leveling). Let's go on with the more absurd things to implement.
What we need are siege machines that are effective and have a meaning. There are many things one could come up with, but if we are just talking about stage 3, a rather easy siege mechanic would be to have oil at inner main for the defenders and a catapult on the outer middle gate for the attackers that shoots into the second floor room. Both should have to be captured and held (not deployed+killed), but work on their own, and both should do more damage the more flags the team has (0 if no flag) to give another incentive for flag roaming.


I think this is all I can come up with for stage 3 right now, I will write something for stage 2 and stage 1 later too.
Also, maybe I should let you in on my ultimate "goal": if we can make the fights spread as much as possible (even better than in normal zones), we can have them end up as an actual massive siege zone of unlimited players, with actual win/lose conditions that are not "kill the lord in time or lose", where we can see a comeback for the "realm commanders" that have to come up with decent strategy and communication to be succesful.

[boomcat]

i would hope they could make Forts "instance" based, 3 forts... so the pop is splittet by a 3rd of current. and then the realm with 2-1 wins the fort, like on citys... it would still be the same pop going forts, and maybe more easy on the server, with devide the pop into 3.. so we dont get all these random crashes, and make the attacking team suddenly be same size as the deffenders. is this idea even possible or will it be to much work??? atm with 300 attackers, its hard to take forts because of door size or doors. and its mostly deffenders who trow it to get a city

[wiscel]

i would hope they could make Forts "instance" based, 3 forts... so the pop is splittet by a 3rd of current. and then the realm with 2-1 wins the fort, like on citys... it would still be the same pop going forts, and maybe more easy on the server, with devide the pop into 3.. so we dont get all these random crashes, and make the attacking team suddenly be same size as the deffenders. is this idea even possible or will it be to much work??? atm with 300 attackers, its hard to take forts because of door size or doors. and its mostly deffenders who trow it to get a city

Yes please.

[Bosli]

i would hope they could make Forts "instance" based

I wouldn't hope for that. Forts still belong to the same "zone" as you don't need to load into them, and they are part of the actual oRvR campaign (=openRvR). The meta with having multiple instance would just be trying to get the premades in the same one or two instances and getting all pugs in the remaining one.
What I would like to see is a game system that highly encourages us not to zerg at one single point so we can have the fort zone just be open for everyone.

[sighy]

I like the idea!

I would add a small suggestion for maybe some additional drops on said flags from t2 pretty much kind of like like the Skaven bomb is now, but with different effects. Possibly give a use to the carryable flag slot.

Possible carryable flag effects.
1. Grants high magic resist and reflect to people within effect radius.
2. Reduces healing of enemies and increases healing of allies, within effect radius.
3. Increases armor/decreases armor pen.
4. Offers magic/meele power to friendlies.
5. Increase casting speed/reduce CDs

The way to balance that would be risk/reward, where if the carrier dies in an awkward spot then there is possibility for the enemy to pick it up. The very point of these would be to be an impactful gamechanger, where the team facing them has to pay attention to and respect them.

[boomcat]

i would hope they could make Forts "instance" based

I wouldn't hope for that. Forts still belong to the same "zone" as you don't need to load into them, and they are part of the actual oRvR campaign (=openRvR). The meta with having multiple instance would just be trying to get the premades in the same one or two instances and getting all pugs in the remaining one.
What I would like to see is a game system that highly encourages us not to zerg at one single point so we can have the fort zone just be open for everyone.

true, but you dont know wich premade goes into wich instance. if there would be 3.. plus its not all in your guild/premade WB who get a ress. so many times you fill your WB with pugs. i think the work for my suggestion is lesser then to rework the entire Fort system?? its only a thought, but it sounds good in my head xD getting lesser pop, less stress on server, and a fort game would actuly comes down to who deffend/attacks best, then trying to let 300 players getting in a small door on same time