Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

[teiloh]

One Chosen can hit one player per second with Bane Shield. If two players attack the Chosen at the same time (in the same one seconds interval), only one of them will receive damage, until next internal global cooldown occures, then the randomness who takes the damage will reset.

With Dire Shield on the other hand the Chosen can at the moment buff 24 players and that means if one players does AoE over the 24 players, he will get damage reflected back to himself every second. If 12 players hits this blob of 24 players with AoE only 1 player per second will take the reflect damage, due to the internal global cooldown. This means the Chosen can "only" hit 115 damage x 24 per second to ONE player, next second another player might get the reflect procc and the third second a third player gets is.

This means that the damage is limited to the damage of Bane Shield x 24 (or players hit) per second. If you are unlucky you will get multiple ticks from this if you AoE for to long over the blob.

As I stated in my former post. Party wide Dire Sheild will help this issue but you will still take the same amount of damage AoE-ing over an organised warband who runs four Chosens with Dire Shield up. The only difference is that you will see four Chosens hitting you in the combat log.

Prety sure each target affected by each instance of one Chosen's Dire Shielding can reflect damage once per ICD to each individual attacker. So one Chosen DSing 24 people getting hit by a BW will hit that BW for 77*24 = 1848 every second. And check ceelol's second screenshot, you can be hit like this by multiple Chosen at once.

4k dmg in 3 seconds is easily negated by having heals and getting that kind of damage back typically involves a keep fight (funnel). Rdps should not be able to run around solo and spam aoe from keep walls. Get a group and this is a non-issue.

Better to reduce uptime then make the skill useless again.

Facepalm. That's damage from ONE person. They're also getting hit by Sorcs, Maguses, Choppas spamming GTDC through questionable los/heights, Marauder spam, SH spam.

[adamthelc]

"A Chosen Champion of Tzeentch is a sight to behold (we continue to pay for how badass we look)- warped by the blessings of the dark gods, these hulking behemoths have the power and size to match even the mightiest of mortal creatures (circa 2012 Crippling Strikes). Their thick Chaos armor can ward off the most punishing of blows (except WL, SW, Slayer, Engi, BW, and AM), while the fell weapons they wield can cleave the heaviest of defenses (for a very small amount) However, these "blessings" come at a price..." (-20% heals)

I do think Bane Shield should only buff groupmates, however, can we can at least buff the damage a bit considering the attackers are most likely not under the affect of debuffs? or something cool like "targets affected by Baneshield also have their Spirit Resistance debuffed by 220"

Tactics stack, so that means Order would not only not have a ranged debuff for their primary Ranged AOE classes' main damage type (elemental), they'd also have to face -580 resistance from range from Sorc's main damage type, as well as see a double damage debuff from Magus.

It's a bit unusual to see bane shield get such high priority for a nerf while BW and engi AoE spam is tolerated.

You think BW and Engi are bad? Sorc + Magus is literally that except they do 20-50% more damage depending on the spec, thanks to the fact that only Destro has a 360 spirit debuff while Order only has Knight aura for Elemental, who have to be within 30 feet of the meat grinder to get it going. In a Fort standoff a Sorc will hit 15-25% resistances while a BW will hit 40%. 80% EDPS vs 60%, that's a 33% damage increase on POS from Magus debuff alone.

How much damage did you do in those 3 seconds? I'm sure a BW could do 3.5k single target damage in 3 seconds if they wanted to, but why would you when you can get far more value from AoE?

You are right magus, sorc and engineer can all also do good AoE damage. And destro can even debuff the magic type of PoS. They don't get increased radii, wild fire and funnel power though. The fact that you have the increased size on RoF makes it more likely that you will hit the target cap and be effected the most by the damage shield.

You can't stack POS so that's not relevant in Forts, unless every single one of the 20 Sorcs is tossing the POS in the same spot. And Dire Shielding damage isn't only done to HIM, it hits literally every single person doing damage. Any Shadow Warrior auto attacking, a SM using a 100 damage AOE, a level 1 snare pot, etc. That ability can literally hit 24*50 (or however many AOEers you have) *100 = 120,000 damage *every GCD* (or more) if people are packed in enough - per Chosen. An ability that's one button press and lasts 17 seconds doing as much passive damage as seen in the SS is absurd.


At this point anyone defending Dire Shielding should probably just be permanently banned from balance feedback.

I think its pretty obvious that's not the way it works, so calm your tits.

[satanlol]

One Chosen can hit one player per second with Bane Shield. If two players attack the Chosen at the same time (in the same one seconds interval), only one of them will receive damage, until next internal global cooldown occures, then the randomness who takes the damage will reset.

With Dire Shield on the other hand the Chosen can at the moment buff 24 players and that means if one players does AoE over the 24 players, he will get damage reflected back to himself every second. If 12 players hits this blob of 24 players with AoE only 1 player per second will take the reflect damage, due to the internal global cooldown. This means the Chosen can "only" hit 115 damage x 24 per second to ONE player, next second another player might get the reflect procc and the third second a third player gets is.

This means that the damage is limited to the damage of Bane Shield x 24 (or players hit) per second. If you are unlucky you will get multiple ticks from this if you AoE for to long over the blob.

As I stated in my former post. Party wide Dire Sheild will help this issue but you will still take the same amount of damage AoE-ing over an organised warband who runs four Chosens with Dire Shield up. The only difference is that you will see four Chosens hitting you in the combat log.

Prety sure each target affected by each instance of one Chosen's Dire Shielding can reflect damage once per ICD to each individual attacker. So one Chosen DSing 24 people getting hit by a BW will hit that BW for 77*24 = 1848 every second. And check ceelol's second screenshot, you can be hit like this by multiple Chosen at once.

4k dmg in 3 seconds is easily negated by having heals and getting that kind of damage back typically involves a keep fight (funnel). Rdps should not be able to run around solo and spam aoe from keep walls. Get a group and this is a non-issue.

Better to reduce uptime then make the skill useless again.

Facepalm. That's damage from ONE person. They're also getting hit by Sorcs, Maguses, Choppas spamming GTDC through questionable los/heights, Marauder spam, SH spam.

Bane Shield and Dire Shield can only hit ONE enemy ONCE every 1 second per Bane Shield the enemy are proccing and it can be only one Bane Shield on a player at a time. If five people attacks me at the same second only one of them will be getting reflect damage back. If 24 players does it only one player per second will get the damage reflected back. This is how Internal Global Cooldown works - how much can an ability proc and to how many per second.

The pictures can be esily explained with the player attacking 15 targets, were some players were under the effect of Chosen#1 Dire Shield, some under the effect of Chosen#2 some under the effect of Chosen#3 etc.

Bane Shield (with tactic Dire Shield) does not stack with other Bane Shields. It can only procc once per seconds per Bane Shield and it will only reflect damage back to ONE player during this internal global cooldown. If you hit a 24-man stack with Dire Shield you will get BS damage x24 back per second for the duration of the Bane Shield or until you stop AoE. With every second the games checks if you or other players attacks the players with Bane Shield and it procs again, if you are unlucky it will be you again. Or it could be your party members turn to take one second of damage. Next second it procs again, if you are really unlucky it's you again, but the chances are higher that its one of the other 30 Order players who's attacking the Destro Bane Shield blobs turn to get a second of reflect back.

[Detangler]

One thing all the recent theory crafters fail to mention: bane shield only procs on hits, not on attacks that were defended.

What are the chances that a rdps is blasting a funnel and happens to not have a single dodge/disrupt on all those HtL spamming tanks? Really, really, really low I'd imagine....

As a matter of fact, there's only one dps class with a very powerful ability that makes all their attacks undefendable for up to 20 seconds who would be the only one to realistically get up to 24 tics reflected. Hmmmmmmm.....

In any case, Dire Shielding is on the list to get changed to group only per the dev response in this thread, so everyone needs to take a step back and breathe.

[WARChosen]

One Chosen can hit one player per second with Bane Shield. If two players attack the Chosen at the same time (in the same one seconds interval), only one of them will receive damage, until next internal global cooldown occures, then the randomness who takes the damage will reset.

With Dire Shield on the other hand the Chosen can at the moment buff 24 players and that means if one players does AoE over the 24 players, he will get damage reflected back to himself every second. If 12 players hits this blob of 24 players with AoE only 1 player per second will take the reflect damage, due to the internal global cooldown. This means the Chosen can "only" hit 115 damage x 24 per second to ONE player, next second another player might get the reflect procc and the third second a third player gets is.

This means that the damage is limited to the damage of Bane Shield x 24 (or players hit) per second. If you are unlucky you will get multiple ticks from this if you AoE for to long over the blob.

As I stated in my former post. Party wide Dire Sheild will help this issue but you will still take the same amount of damage AoE-ing over an organised warband who runs four Chosens with Dire Shield up. The only difference is that you will see four Chosens hitting you in the combat log.

Prety sure each target affected by each instance of one Chosen's Dire Shielding can reflect damage once per ICD to each individual attacker. So one Chosen DSing 24 people getting hit by a BW will hit that BW for 77*24 = 1848 every second. And check ceelol's second screenshot, you can be hit like this by multiple Chosen at once.

4k dmg in 3 seconds is easily negated by having heals and getting that kind of damage back typically involves a keep fight (funnel). Rdps should not be able to run around solo and spam aoe from keep walls. Get a group and this is a non-issue.


Better to reduce uptime then make the skill useless again.

Facepalm. That's damage from ONE person. They're also getting hit by Sorcs, Maguses, Choppas spamming GTDC through questionable los/heights, Marauder spam, SH spam.

Facepalm is that you are blind to the fact he is a BW glass canon he get that much dm because he was in FRONT LINE with NO GUARD he was in range choppa skill "GIT TO DA CHOPPA" so he was pull to the enemy blop so more like when you se 8 chosens he get massif debuff resist and toughens he will newer get such dm when he was in range of guard but nobody care about this because we need to nerf more destro and order need to have a chance going solo roam keep siege, forts without consequences and spam only AOE

[teiloh]

Well the ability was reigned in a bit so we'll see what happens.

Facepalm is that you are blind to the fact he is a BW glass canon he get that much dm because he was in FRONT LINE with NO GUARD he was in range choppa skill "GIT TO DA CHOPPA" so he was pull to the enemy blop so more like when you se 8 chosens he get massif debuff resist and toughens he will newer get such dm when he was in range of guard but nobody care about this because we need to nerf more destro and order need to have a chance going solo roam keep siege, forts without consequences and spam only AOE

Yes because it's reasonable to expect every single DPS to be guarded in a 170-200 person raid-type encounter.

Yep, Destro is overpowered. It's amazing that you're complaining about BW DPS when Sorcs and Magus literally hit 20-50% harder and mSH has an AOE spam not mirrored anywhere on Order.

[ReturnOfTheMac]

The new dire shielding doesn't feel like it's worth the tactics slot now. It's been a fun while it lasted.

[emiliorv]

The new dire shielding doesn't feel like it's worth the tactics slot now. It's been a fun while it lasted.

For sure 77 dmg/second x max 3 allies dont worth the tactic slot...

[Nrrrdking]

Let's not kid ourselves and act like Magus and Sorc can't do the exact same thing. I suppose to Destro, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Pit of Shade, and Dissolving Mist don't exist when talking about Engineer or BW. While we're at it, let's neglect interactions of abilities like Glean Magic with Pit of Shade. But don't worry, while we don't vocalize it often, the irony isn't lost to us that you'd forget what abilities your realm has in the name of preserving your one button wonders.

Also, stop passing around misinformation about my screenshots. I'll update you, since 2 posts in must be difficult to read to. There's ONE Chosen doing over 3.5k damage in 3s with Bane shield alone. Not 2, 3, 4, 5, or so many like you claim. ONE. This thread was initially a complaint about Discordant Fluctuation AND Bane Shield, to which I observed Bane Shield being the issue, not Discordant Fluctuation.

I don't give a hot **** whether they nerf the AoE cap or not. But let's not pretend like it's okay for one realm to have anti AoE built into one bullshit skill and not the other. Hell, mirror it on Knight and I'll happily play mine and wait for the Destro "Shield of the Sun OP" whine threads that will inevitably show up due to ignorance of their own realm's abilities.

I'm content with Dire Shield being limited to groups. If Destro can achieve the same affect with proper organization, good on them. Glad the non-bias Destro can see that (to which I know you're advocating, dispute everything else).

As someone who plays Magus and alts Sorc I just want to drop some info here since it seems you do not play the classes yourself.

Tzeench's Firestorm and Pit of Shades are both channeled abilities that require line of sight. Although a magus can crawl slowly while channeling TF you need to have your range pet out and full stacks to get close enough to cast both mist and firestorm on oil while staying safely out of the range of that oil. Nevermind the dozen or so BWs and Engis spamming AoE abilities on you. Also remember that the Magus pet itself does crap DPS compared to the Engi equivalent and that the Engi also has a ranged auto attack on top of that. AND THEN add up the group heal/buffs/debuffs that Engis can spec into that have no Destro equivalent on Magus.

People complain that Magus DPS doesn't have to deal with Armor mitigation but I'll tell you what, those Sorcerers, Shamans, WEs and Magus' aren't exactly walking around in plate mail. Bullets hurt. Also remember that Acid Bomb helps BWs in the same way Glean Magic helps Sorcs. The exception being that order has many more tools to remove hexes than Destro does.

If you want to see this disparity in action, check out any City premade instance. Count how many Magus' in those meta WBs and then count the Engi's. If there were such a thing as parity I bet those numbers would be way more even. You will see bomb sorcs spamming AoE, sure, but you'll never EVER see a changing spec Magus or probably never a Magus at all. Only in the PuGs.

[ReturnOfTheMac]

The new dire shielding doesn't feel like it's worth the tactics slot now. It's been a fun while it lasted.

For sure 77 dmg/second x max 3 allies dont worth the tactic slot...

I ran it for 3 hours in an organized WB and never saw more than 3-4 ticks on my screen. It might do some damage when pushing a choke point in fort, but that's about it.