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For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

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kam19080
Posts: 90

For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#1 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:22 am

1. place a "taunt" for all allies hitting that single target regen hp, just like the "Blessing of Heaven" of SM.

2.A "guard" that regen Righteous for the friend hit or be hit.

3. AOE "Challenge" for all group mates hit those targets to regen hp or be hit to regen hp by a 30ft of target grp mate buff in 15s


those skills can be or can not be "core"
Bind on types of weapons or not



And I also hope the Simga radiance return to have basic heal.......

If u should build good survival ability, u can not hv enough str, if u hv many str you are easy to die in the front line.

so that fix basic heal and don't stack for str for sigma radiance heal may be a good choice

1. sigma radiance stack by toughness or other defensive status e.g wound

2. or a high enough fixed basic heal

Thank you.
Last edited by kam19080 on Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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R3xz
Posts: 103

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#2 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:33 am

What is your rationale for the suggestion?

Not to shoot it down or anything, but the reason why we even got those nice changes for WP and DoK is because people made very comprehensive posts that outlined the weaknesses of existing spec/tree, what can be changed, and why those change should be considered.

Your post is simply "here are the changes/buffs they should add to the class", with absolutely no reasonings or anything to back it up.

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betozg
Posts: 50
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Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#3 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:39 am

I tested at scenarios for several hours now (full opressor rr 76) new changes to WP grace, and the only one worth it is sigmars vision and divine warden merge, other than that...

Sigmar radiance need a lot of str to heal decent and now you cant stack toughness or wounds, which you really need since you need to be in the frontline and everybody ALWAYS focus WPs, grace is a magnet of DPS...

Divine strike change is interesting but to be honest, close to useless with 10 feet radius (really need at least 30 feet), 95% of the time, is better to use sigmar radiance

as I said before im so glad devs are trying to improve grace spec but this update does not feel like a real buff, I understand its hard to balance something like this, but is clear to me that grace was and still is too far from meta, everybody hate this spec, in scenarios, RvR and lets dont even mention city :|

I ll keep testing anyway but already lost hope

kam19080
Posts: 90

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#4 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:52 am

R3xz wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:33 am
What is your rationale for the suggestion?

Not to shoot it down or anything, but the reason why we even got those nice changes for WP and DoK is because people made very comprehensive posts that outlined the weaknesses of existing spec/tree, what can be changed, and why those change should be considered.

Your post is simply "here are the changes/buffs they should add to the class", with absolutely no reasonings or anything to back it up.
That's we need discussion.... if I just complain what I don't hv, it is useless....

And it is just a suggestion...... I don't want to list out a lot of data, if someone thinks wp dok grace is weak, they will join us, if they think its enough ,they will ban

kam19080
Posts: 90

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#5 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:56 am

betozg wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:39 am
I tested at scenarios for several hours now (full opressor rr 76) new changes to WP grace, and the only one worth it is sigmars vision and divine warden merge, other than that...

Sigmar radiance need a lot of str to heal decent and now you cant stack toughness or wounds, which you really need since you need to be in the frontline and everybody ALWAYS focus WPs, grace is a magnet of DPS...

Divine strike change is interesting but to be honest, close to useless with 10 feet radius (really need at least 30 feet), 95% of the time, is better to use sigmar radiance

as I said before im so glad devs are trying to improve grace spec but this update does not feel like a real buff, I understand its hard to balance something like this, but is clear to me that grace was and still is too far from meta, everybody hate this spec, in scenarios, RvR and lets dont even mention city :|

I ll keep testing anyway but already lost hope
Defensive play maybe good for u, as offensive play dok done pretty well, however, wp trend to def than off.......

hippyia
Posts: 19

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#6 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:24 am

kam19080 wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:22 am
1. place a "taunt" for all allies hitting that single target regen hp, just like the "Blessing of Heaven" of SM.

2.A "guard" that regen Righteous for the friend hit or be hit.

3. AOE "Challenge" for all group mates hit those targets to regen hp or be hit to regen hp by a 30ft of target grp mate buff in 15s


those skills can be or can not be "core"
Bind on types of weapons or not



And I also hope the Simga radiance return to have basic heal.......

Thank you.
1. This is not needed, plus the only way an ability like this would get implemented would be with an RF drain per hit on that target. You already have high RF cost abilities which come in the form of very high Healing and counter burst.(Sigmar's Shield, Divine assault, and the situational Sacrifice.) Adding this ability would actually hinger the grace wp. and before you ask, no we do not need an increase to RF gain to facilitate an ability like this, our RF regen is fine.

2. As mentioned above, our RF regen is fine, we gain at a minimum 30 RF every gcd, 40 if using radiance and not to mention multiple Smite hits along with jump supplicating to get multiple ticks. This is completely fine and should not be changed, if you struggle with RF then you need to change your playstyle.

3. See 1. It is an unneeded buff which could actually hinder us, or promote bad play just to pad scoreboard numbers instead of stopping someone from dying with smart Sigmar's Shield usage.

Sigmars radiance is fine, it was fine before and after the patch.


betozg wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:39 am
I tested at scenarios for several hours now (full opressor rr 76) new changes to WP grace, and the only one worth it is sigmars vision and divine warden merge, other than that...

Sigmar radiance need a lot of str to heal decent and now you cant stack toughness or wounds, which you really need since you need to be in the frontline and everybody ALWAYS focus WPs, grace is a magnet of DPS...

Divine strike change is interesting but to be honest, close to useless with 10 feet radius (really need at least 30 feet), 95% of the time, is better to use sigmar radiance

as I said before im so glad devs are trying to improve grace spec but this update does not feel like a real buff, I understand its hard to balance something like this, but is clear to me that grace was and still is too far from meta, everybody hate this spec, in scenarios, RvR and lets dont even mention city :|

I ll keep testing anyway but already lost hope
You stacking toughness or wounds is your choice, your raw damage scales off of str, so if you want to see increased healing then build more str. You are completely capable of going for a more DPS orientated build and performing fine.


For general pug SC and city play, divine strike could do with a slight increase to the range on the two additional hits. 30 feet is way to extreme, a change to 15ft would probably suffice. Divine strike has the capability to heal more than radiance, for less ap cost which is huge for your spammable heal, and it should be encouraged to use better positioning and targeting to achieve that possibility with 3 hits each time. In organized 6v6 the range of divine strike is completely fine and it is rare you do not hit three people, very rare.

This was 100% a buff to Grace wp. Its crazy how people do not see this, the spec was already strong if built correctly.

Grace is performing extremely well in 6v6 if you partially set your group up for it. So im regards to the 6v6 meta, it has its place for sure.

kam19080
Posts: 90

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#7 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:01 am

If u should build good survival ability, u can not hv enough str, if u hv many str you are easy to die in the front line.

so that fix basic heal and don't stack for str for sigma radiance heal may be a good choice

1. sigma radiance stack by toughness

2. or a high enough fixed basic heal

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betozg
Posts: 50
Contact:

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#8 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:26 pm

You stacking toughness or wounds is your choice, your raw damage scales off of str, so if you want to see increased healing then build more str. You are completely capable of going for a more DPS orientated build and performing fine.


For general pug SC and city play, divine strike could do with a slight increase to the range on the two additional hits. 30 feet is way to extreme, a change to 15ft would probably suffice. Divine strike has the capability to heal more than radiance, for less ap cost which is huge for your spammable heal, and it should be encouraged to use better positioning and targeting to achieve that possibility with 3 hits each time. In organized 6v6 the range of divine strike is completely fine and it is rare you do not hit three people, very rare.

This was 100% a buff to Grace wp. Its crazy how people do not see this, the spec was already strong if built correctly.

Grace is performing extremely well in 6v6 if you partially set your group up for it. So im regards to the 6v6 meta, it has its place for sure.

Stacking toughness or wounds wasn't really a choice, it was necesary considering the heavy focus you ALWAYS get as a WP in the frontlines, as simple as this, "a dead WP can't heal", the best WP grace guide said this and it was right (I know the author of that guide propoused this update which is a bit weird to me)

About divine strike range, I was talking about healing range, because healing to 10 feets is close to useless, you always heal only yourself most of the time, and you heal yourself more (and also others) with sigmar radiance, but yes, 15 feet range for the extra hits would be useful too, 95% of the time is better to use sigmar radiance than the new divine strike, so whats the pont of divine strike?

I dont use 6 vs 6 as a reference for anything because its just a tiny part of the game and not relevant at all, you cant end-gear yourself doing ranked, I know grace is great at ranked even before this "buff"

Are you really a grace WP? I mean, are YOU really testing these changes? (and if you are, do you have SOV already?) because i am, I always beign grace, only switched to salvation because I was tired of people blaming me for losing a city and because of invader set... I tested several hours in scenarios and my performance is a bit worst than before update, yes sigmar radiance can heal more at the cost of survavility, but im not sure if its worth it... it wasnt uncommon to me to be top healer or at least top 3 in scenarios (because yes, I know how to play), now after update, is definitely harder, but i ll keep testing anyway... Sor far, im pretty sure divine strike needs more Healing range to be useful.

Despite what you said, Grace is very far from meta, thats a fact, not an opinion, and is not my intention that it becomes meta but at least more viable in RvR and City, which is not. We both agree is great at ranked, but even there, just check the 6 vs 6 leaderboard, 2 WP at top are salvation, the third is grace.

Testing RR76 full opressor about 1000 str

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uanaka
Posts: 173

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK that some skills seem a sup tank

Post#9 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:58 pm

betozg wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:26 pm
You stacking toughness or wounds is your choice, your raw damage scales off of str, so if you want to see increased healing then build more str. You are completely capable of going for a more DPS orientated build and performing fine.


For general pug SC and city play, divine strike could do with a slight increase to the range on the two additional hits. 30 feet is way to extreme, a change to 15ft would probably suffice. Divine strike has the capability to heal more than radiance, for less ap cost which is huge for your spammable heal, and it should be encouraged to use better positioning and targeting to achieve that possibility with 3 hits each time. In organized 6v6 the range of divine strike is completely fine and it is rare you do not hit three people, very rare.

This was 100% a buff to Grace wp. Its crazy how people do not see this, the spec was already strong if built correctly.

Grace is performing extremely well in 6v6 if you partially set your group up for it. So im regards to the 6v6 meta, it has its place for sure.

Stacking toughness or wounds wasn't really a choice, it was necesary considering the heavy focus you ALWAYS get as a WP in the frontlines, as simple as this, "a dead WP can't heal", the best WP grace guide said this and it was right (I know the author of that guide propoused this update which is a bit weird to me)

About divine strike range, I was talking about healing range, because healing to 10 feets is close to useless, you always heal only yourself most of the time, and you heal yourself more (and also others) with sigmar radiance, but yes, 15 feet range for the extra hits would be useful too, 95% of the time is better to use sigmar radiance than the new divine strike, so whats the pont of divine strike?

I dont use 6 vs 6 as a reference for anything because its just a tiny part of the game and not relevant at all, you cant end-gear yourself doing ranked, I know grace is great at ranked even before this "buff"

Are you really a grace WP? I mean, are YOU really testing these changes? (and if you are, do you have SOV already?) because i am, I always beign grace, only switched to salvation because I was tired of people blaming me for losing a city and because of invader set... I tested several hours in scenarios and my performance is a bit worst than before update, yes sigmar radiance can heal more at the cost of survavility, but im not sure if its worth it... it wasnt uncommon to me to be top healer or at least top 3 in scenarios (because yes, I know how to play), now after update, is definitely harder, but i ll keep testing anyway... Sor far, im pretty sure divine strike need more Healing range to be useful.

Testing RR76 full opressor about 1000 str
I am a grace wp, and I am testing these changes. Over the past few days I have been trying out a wide range of builds and gear, including sentinel, bloodlord, sovereign, and warlord. I have also been experimenting with a variety of renown point distribution from stacking full toughness, full crit, defensive mitigation with block/parry/dodge/disrupt, and even full strength and weapon skill. And in all of those situations, the heals that I get with sigmar radiance has been better than before, no questions asked. Now the base heal of sigmar radiance takes more into account our primary offensive stats, whereas before you solely relied on a static base heal. With more and more gear being introduced into the game, the static base heal was not scaling (by the nature of being a set static value) and our damage from sigmar radiance was going lower due to increased armor values. Now you have the option to remain defensive and tanky, but this change opened up the window for you to try out more gearing and renown builds, which is more accurately represented by healing values now.

******* If you were the person that was wearing full willpower/salvation gear and played with a shield for whatever reason, then yes. This will probably feel like a nerf to you and I am sorry that you have been affected by that. But to anyone else that was wearing any kind of gear set above mercenary and beast lord at level 40, with 600 str/melee power, you will have seen an increase to your sigmar radiance healing.
DO NOTE - now that the sigmar radiance base healing takes more into account your offensive stats, any debuffs to your strength (i.e chosen aura) will affect base healing, which is the compromise.

The change to divine strike was something unique that would help you with out of party healing (which sigmar radiance could not do). And prior to the change, divine strike alone often was not enough to heal for any significant amount due to how much mitigations could affect damage. Instead of adding a base heal, which imo would be boring making it too similar to sigmar radiance, the 3-hit cleave was added to give it a different playstyle and require you to use a bit more brain power to potentially provide some big out of party healing potential.

Depending on when you tested these changes, there was a hotfix yesterday that addressed damage mitigation through guard, challenge, absorbs etc that was affecting our heals. So if you tried before the hotfix, chances are you were encountering a bug that significantly affected damage and healing. I would recommend testing it out again.

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betozg
Posts: 50
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Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#10 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:19 pm

"Testing RR76 full opressor about 1000 str" did you missed this??? why the hell im going to use willpower gear with grace? :D

*Update... Yes!, damage is definitely higher now after hotfix, Im seeing big numbers now!

But I still think divine strike could use a bit more healing range (15-20 feet), otherwise people needs to be really really close to you

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