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For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

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kam19080
Posts: 100

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#21 » Wed May 06, 2020 1:46 am

kam19080 wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 am The positioning of shield WP and DOK is a sub-tank + sub-heal

stacking str seems a joke for a defensive healer, if u play offensive shield wp, you are welcome.

However, sigma radiance should hv enough fixed or basic healing and stack for str (past)
or it should hv no fixed and basic healing and stack for defensive status(suggestion).
Wearing a shield as a dps, doesn't it sounds weird?

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Beara
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Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#22 » Wed May 06, 2020 7:31 pm

WP Grace spec was over-tuned prior to patch removing the static heal.
You had access to the full array of heal spec, with exalted defenses, sigmars shield, wounds buff, sacrifice and were still able to use the physical aspects of the grace tree because OTHER than your Sigmars Radiance your grace tree wasn't a Strength based tree.
I'm pretty sure the intent of the Grace/Sacrifice trees were to be strength based lifetaps. Playing a willpower based sacrifice dok isn't a possibility because we get devour essence instead of wounds buff and pillage essence instead of sigmars shield.
The WP still has a lot of room to play around as far as customizing their grace/salvation trees together to something that fits their playstyle. A lot of these asks are outrageous.
The only skills that still need to be looked at are shielding grace and soulwarding, which in my opinion should both give 10% block chance(Cuz why do you have a skill in the shield tree that increases defenses except for your shield defenses-makes no sense-) and the absorb shield should just be a base shield(for all damage rather than JUST rdps-even if you have to lower the amount-because the idea is to get you there), maybe for less because the fact of the matter is, Grace/Sac specs still need to reach a target to heal.(Thinking about it maybe a little speed boost would be nice.)
So far, I like the changes made for both the DoK and the WP. I was also a willpower based grace spec because it was honestly better than going strength based grace. Like I said, Willpower based grace was overtuned. One of the biggest issues with Melee WP and DoKs is that selecting a target is extremely important. With a static heal, it took a lot of that importance away and it shouldn't have. You have to play smart and attack squishier targets or even pets to heal for greater amounts and that's the way it should be. Also, Absorb shields were supposed to be a WP/DOK Weakness and with a static heal on that skill, it took away the brunt of the weakness.

I play both WP and DOK in shield spec and I honestly love the changes. I haven't tested it as extensively on the WP as I have the DoK, but I did play around for a few days testing the changes on the warrior priest and the willpower based grace does seem to be overtuned anymore. I assumed that was their intent as it was, again, overtuned. You can still go Willpower based grace, but you just lose out on being able to heal and gain RF from sigmars radiance. So you are more backline healer(who has to use supplication way more-but you have a tactic for that too-) again aside from using smite to build RF. But you still have the access to the full array of skills whereas if a DoK goes Willpower, he loses Devour Essence which is a huge hit and makes it bad.

Now on both sides with the changes to the tactics, etc you can still get the Group Absorb, AOE Cleanse while going melee wp/dok. The aoe cleanse is already a huge buff in and of itself.

And I simply LOVE the changes to the Empowered Transfer/Grace of Sigmar. 2 Reasons. 1 is you get extra damage output(Although it does suck that you can't control who it hits, so it kind of takes away from the AOE detaunt tactic) AND extra healing with Divine Strike/Consume essence(Though I agree with increasing the range of the heal to 15-20ft. 30ft is entirely too far a radius as you can send it to whoever and wherever). And the second reason is because it forces you to choose either Sigmars Radiance/Transfer Essence or Divine Strike/Consume Essence. The former being pure damage, if you're hitting someone with high armor then you switch to the latter since it's Spiritual. And now that it hits 3 you can get about the same amount of healing when you're getting double teamed.

Anyways, that's my thoughts/opinions on the matter. I'm not going to say anyone is bad like some others, but playing a melee heal WP/DoK isn't easy. It's not meant to be. You have to know who to attack and when to switch targets when someone is guarded, make split second decisions on which skills to use to properly assist your group, and know where you should be positioned. Just because you're melee doesn't mean you're frontline. You shouldn't be the first person running into a battle. You're still support. You're a healer, don't forget that. (This doesn't Apply to 2h/dual wield)

I always joke around about when they're gonna give DoK/WP "Guard". The fact that people really out here thinking WP should be replacing tanks or being equal or similar to tanks is Nuts. Reel it in a bit.
Last edited by Beara on Wed May 13, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zxul
Posts: 1359

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#23 » Thu May 07, 2020 2:38 pm

Beara wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 7:31 pm either Sigmars Radiance/Transfer Essence or Divine Strike/Consume Essence. The former being pure damage, if you're hitting someone with high armor then you switch to the latter since it's Spiritual.
Btw Divine Strike/Consume Essence description doesn't mentions them being spiritual dmg, was it stated by devs, or was it tested?
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uanaka
Posts: 214

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#24 » Thu May 07, 2020 4:27 pm

Zxul wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 2:38 pm
Beara wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 7:31 pm either Sigmars Radiance/Transfer Essence or Divine Strike/Consume Essence. The former being pure damage, if you're hitting someone with high armor then you switch to the latter since it's Spiritual.
Btw Divine Strike/Consume Essence description doesn't mentions them being spiritual dmg, was it stated by devs, or was it tested?
Just checked, it's not noted on the career builder, but in game for Divine Strike it now mentions it is spirit damage. It was always spirit damage, but the tooltip never specified it. I would like to assume the tooltip for DOKs have been updated correctly too.

Gartip
Posts: 1

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#25 » Sat May 09, 2020 5:21 am

Hey there

a change for grace WP and shield DoK in my opion is that shilding grace and soul ward should be toggleble and a stack mechanic with 10 , stacks and only at max stacks it counts for the group, on the way up like as a 10 stack ability you get 1% per stack for yourelf.
in that chase shield WP and DoK are for long fights, dual wield or 2H WP for dmg and book users for heal and one last suggestion for WP is to switch the moral 4 from grace divine amazement (dmg around you and heals you) with the from wrath avatar of sigmar (statboost)



sorry for bad english it isnt my first language


wer fehler findet darf sie behalten

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Beara
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Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#26 » Wed May 20, 2020 4:37 am

Gartip wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 5:21 am Hey there

a change for grace WP and shield DoK in my opion is that shilding grace and soul ward should be toggleble and a stack mechanic with 10 , stacks and only at max stacks it counts for the group, on the way up like as a 10 stack ability you get 1% per stack for yourelf.
in that chase shield WP and DoK are for long fights, dual wield or 2H WP for dmg and book users for heal and one last suggestion for WP is to switch the moral 4 from grace divine amazement (dmg around you and heals you) with the from wrath avatar of sigmar (statboost)



sorry for bad english it isnt my first language


wer fehler findet darf sie behalten
I disagree with all of this. If they make it so it increases block% by 10% as well, it'll be fine. There's no need for the stack building. That'd be a nerf to an already unused skill. As it stands, it's only good for the snare/root immunity. Even if they toned down the soul essence cost or reduced the cooldown.
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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#27 » Wed May 20, 2020 8:40 am

Maybe change all dmg to spirit when using shield? you can then only worry about str and focus also on defensive stuff. Give both 25 % aa haste when using 2h / dualwield and maybe add the other 25 % on divine fury ?. Replace the AA haste tactic with ws+ini buff;) With that also give fanaticism 10% armour pene and the 25 % armour buff skill, replace it with some kind of reflective thing, maybe 65 feet range target 3 sec cast (can move while channel) with 8 sec coold down starting when you end the cast, that reflects half dmg back to target and half as a heal def target, add 20% slow on it for wp one, and wp dps buff needs to be double dmg cos no slow. I Played dps wp as main in live WAR so i will never stop dreaming/trying to have good ideas for these classes cos dps wp and dok is <3
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#28 » Wed May 20, 2020 8:49 am

Sinisterror wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 8:40 am Maybe change all dmg to spirit when using shield? you can then only worry about str and focus also on defensive stuff. Give both 25 % aa haste when using 2h / dualwield and maybe add the other 25 % on divine fury ?. Replace the AA haste tactic with ws+ini buff;) With that also give fanaticism 10% armour pene and the 25 % armour buff skill, replace it with some kind of reflective thing, maybe 65 feet range target 3 sec cast (can move while channel) with 8 sec coold down starting when you end the cast, that reflects half dmg back to target and half as a heal def target, add 20% slow on it for wp one, and wp dps buff needs to be double dmg cos no slow. I Played dps wp as main in live WAR so i will never stop dreaming/trying to have good ideas for these classes cos dps wp and dok is <3

Edit; Both wp and dok should be able to hit & heal off from keep doors, maybe even no dmg but some kind of heal from their healing abilities should work of keep doors.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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courtsdad1
Posts: 118

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#29 » Wed May 20, 2020 12:43 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 8:49 am
Sinisterror wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 8:40 am Maybe change all dmg to spirit when using shield? you can then only worry about str and focus also on defensive stuff. Give both 25 % aa haste when using 2h / dualwield and maybe add the other 25 % on divine fury ?. Replace the AA haste tactic with ws+ini buff;) With that also give fanaticism 10% armour pene and the 25 % armour buff skill, replace it with some kind of reflective thing, maybe 65 feet range target 3 sec cast (can move while channel) with 8 sec coold down starting when you end the cast, that reflects half dmg back to target and half as a heal def target, add 20% slow on it for wp one, and wp dps buff needs to be double dmg cos no slow. I Played dps wp as main in live WAR so i will never stop dreaming/trying to have good ideas for these classes cos dps wp and dok is <3

Edit; Both wp and dok should be able to hit & heal off from keep doors, maybe even no dmg but some kind of heal from their healing abilities should work of keep doors.
In the beginning you could. I was just thinking about this the other day.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: For Grace WP and Sacrifice DOK

Post#30 » Thu May 21, 2020 7:12 am

courtsdad1 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 12:43 pm
Sinisterror wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 8:49 am
Sinisterror wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 8:40 am Maybe change all dmg to spirit when using shield? you can then only worry about str and focus also on defensive stuff. Give both 25 % aa haste when using 2h / dualwield and maybe add the other 25 % on divine fury ?. Replace the AA haste tactic with ws+ini buff;) With that also give fanaticism 10% armour pene and the 25 % armour buff skill, replace it with some kind of reflective thing, maybe 65 feet range target 3 sec cast (can move while channel) with 8 sec coold down starting when you end the cast, that reflects half dmg back to target and half as a heal def target, add 20% slow on it for wp one, and wp dps buff needs to be double dmg cos no slow. I Played dps wp as main in live WAR so i will never stop dreaming/trying to have good ideas for these classes cos dps wp and dok is <3

Edit; Both wp and dok should be able to hit & heal off from keep doors, maybe even no dmg but some kind of heal from their healing abilities should work of keep doors.
In the beginning you could. I was just thinking about this the other day.
And we should be able to heal from our melee heal from keep doors. This would make interesting place for dps wp/dok on keep/fort sieges. They are so boring man, and for some reason on ror it is punished if you want to play solo, okay ? I played warband/guild game -08-2011 and after that i started to reallllly like solo roaming and it is close to impossible here. goddamnit :D I love the game so eternal respect and hailz to the devs and all that keep this game a float but being solo does not mean you dont contribute to your realm, well at least in live=) Maybe i want too much from ror devs but i dont think punishing soloers in anyway helps anyone.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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