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Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

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Spellbound
Posts: 15

Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#1 » Wed May 20, 2020 2:32 pm

Brief history some know, I've been an internal part of Mythic Entertainment working w/ Developers as the Wizard Team Lead, then later changed over to the Knight program. I was also part of the Warhammer Online internal team and worked with Developers on balance issues and was their Official Forum moderator for a total 8 years with Mythic/Broadsword/Bioware. Some changes in current form of DAOC live is still from my ideas and implementations.

This server brought back a lot of excitement to all, especially me since it provided great memories and I miss Warhammer Online, so I thank the server admins. The development team did a great job and fast response to the influx of players. Addition of city sieges, Invader and Royal Crests were well needed as I heard in the past Conq medallions were the highest.

Population was high and the server admins did many great attempts to find the perfect balance for the players while trying to minimize gear grind and have long term goals for the longetivity of the high server pop.

Now the real issues, no it's not balance of Destro vs. Order. In MMOs what you learn is balancing will NEVER end. Every class and realm will have it's turn. There is no end, so that won't be covered. Balancing is dymanic. It's largely the bottleneck of the gear grind which has caused many to stop playing and frustration once new players realized the bugs of trying to get their gear, difficulty and non-fun aspect of it not worth their time for city sieges while getting slaughters by veteran RR80/Full Sov warbands farming noobs with zero reward for the noobs to fight them.

So called "InvaderGate" was previously the issue and development added 4 Invaders for defending your zone before the Fort. Why was that mechanic abused? It is because players from both realm were starved of progression. City sieges stopped due to it and that's when you saw a huge drop in the playerbase. It got very dull and boring quick for many just purposely flipping zones back and forth to abuse the mechanic.

City sieges. These are rare during EU/NA prime and majority of the raids I see are around wee hours of the morning NA time or very late NA time when people going to sleep. Many players are bottlenecked by needing Royal Crests and do what everyone knows as, "City logging". Majority of the players stopped playing their class, make alts, or stopped playing in general. The "City Logged" players only log in now when Discord @everyone about city sieges. Heck, there is even a mod to track the zones through an app without having to login, because they DON'T want to play the game to PvP. Simply want to login to get Royal Crests. That's where your 400+ population is at when the City happens.

I've had discussions w/ many admin/RoR team whether in DM or Discord about the grind or bottleneck. I agree you don't want to just give out Royal Crests or Invaders and cause every character to be maxed so fast that they quit or play alts. Well that is currently happening with the current system and the fix is very simple. Players making alts isn't a bad thing either.

Allow RR70+ players to have a "Crit" chance to drop Invader Medallions instead of Vanq and allow RR80+ players to have a "crit" chance to drop Royal Crests. The crit chance can be as low as 3% for Invader and 1% for Royal Crests. This will bring back what most players play this game for, PvP. Allow mass players to fight each other. If a low geared realm/player wants to fight against a high RR warband, this ENCOURAGES trying to kill RR80+. Current system THERE IS NO MOTIVATION to keep PvP going in open field just to get Vanq medallions. Why bother playing for low percentage chance to get a bag for 1 Royal crest? You can also allow players that are Vanq/Invader unlocked players to roll on the high level medallions.

City sieges are also NOT fun for majority of Order players. We have a log of the last few months of end results of City sieges and you'd be lucky to even see a siege end with Order winning more than Destro. Again, that's a balancing issue and that's a different issue. You're asking many players to play City which they do not enjoy, and to play it at off hours.

I obtained RR80 the other day and still enjoy PvPing and want to just kill just like many others.

What is also demoralizing and not fun about City Sieges? You'll be playing oRvR with friends of low RR/low gear and guildies which you're trying to level and introduce to the game. Once a city opens, all friends/guildies depart and Warbands only invite top geared players and no longer about friendship. The guild/alliance I'm in is part of that too, so this is a server wide thing of bringing only the best because they want their Royals. I recently got 6+ friends to play this game and once they "disband" to form a city warband, they just log, solo queue and/or go to sleep. There is no fun in promoting Best RR/gear vs Best RR/gear warbands and killing the community of friends. Yes, you can queue as a PUG, but PUGs on both sides largely get destroyed and it's not fun.

So you're spending time waiting for @Here/@everyone in Discord at off hours for a shot to play with the best, not with friends. Why even reward city loggers any medallions for not playing the game while others do the work? It's not the fault of the players, but the implementation or refusal to allow medallions to drop from players thinking it's promoting the server when it's doing the opposite.

The most popular request has been to allow Invader and Royal Crests to drop from players, as WAS on live. This encourages PvP in a PvP game. City sieges on live were a failure, and no need to promote that system hard. Let Fort and City siege be a --BONUS-- for much higher Invader and Royal Crests, not the end game and only way to get those medallions.

The human brain just wants a percentage chance for high level crests to drop off players, which is why gambling is a major thing and it'll keep playing fighting. Maybe even allow higher RR players to have a higher crit chance of the enemy dropping a Invader or Royal crest to promote playing their high RR characters still and go beyond RR80.

Once a player is high sov geared, you can allow Royal Crests to do other things besides gear to promote them to keep playing their high RR characters. I leave that to you.

Bring back PvP to a PvP game. The server is great, I want to see it thrive and not seeing people quit and/or complain on Discord.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#2 » Wed May 20, 2020 2:58 pm

That's a long winded way to ask for killfarming for Sov to be a thing.
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grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

amagawd
Posts: 29

Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#3 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:03 pm

Good ideas!
I would change the way you can enter a city. If you did not contribute to the overall war effort, you should not be eligible to enter the city assault/defense. I think this way ppl will focus more on their mains and RVR will come alive even more. No more xrealming. People are mocking chats with "realmpride", opting for giving up the fight so they get a city run for some currency. But hey, currency is currency.
I'm 74 atm, aiming for 255. Maybe by 255 I will get full sov. Atm I'm not even full invader. I agree with currency dropping from high RR players, at least if u wipe a roaming wb you get some good rewards.
If you need a companion destro side, who isn't bailing out for currency, send me a PM.
Klindor - aiming @ RR 255.

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toffikx
Posts: 266

Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#4 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:03 pm

Spellbound wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:32 pm
Let Fort and City siege be a --BONUS-- for much higher Invader and Royal Crests, not the end game and only way to get those medallions.

havartii
Posts: 115

Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#5 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:08 pm

100 aao so all of Destro will be in sov and Order won't even want to enter the lakes either .

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wargrimnir
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Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#6 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:11 pm

We have explicitly and very intentionally designed the system to not reward kills with currency. Currency comes from the completion of content, which requires realm-wide coordinated effort to enable and engage in.

Suggestions like this have been heard before, they haven't been implemented because it is diametrically opposed to the concept we have implemented currently. We are very aware how simple and easy it would be to just give a teeny tiny chance for currency to drop in RvR, but this currency is not intended as an RvR reward. RvR is the gate to Fort/City content. Fort/City content is where you earn this currency.

You know all of this, suggest it anyway, and I certainly hope you're not surprised by the answer.
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grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

Ramlaen
Posts: 17

Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#7 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:13 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:11 pm
We have explicitly and very intentionally designed the system to not reward kills with currency. Currency comes from the completion of content, which requires realm-wide coordinated effort to enable and engage in.

Suggestions like this have been heard before, they haven't been implemented because it is diametrically opposed to the concept we have implemented currently. We are very aware how simple and easy it would be to just give a teeny tiny chance for currency to drop in RvR, but this currency is not intended as an RvR reward. RvR is the gate to Fort/City content. Fort/City content is where you earn this currency.

You know all of this, suggest it anyway, and I certainly hope you're not surprised by the answer.
This was a long winded way to say you want to drive away your playerbase.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#8 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:14 pm

Ramlaen wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:13 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:11 pm
We have explicitly and very intentionally designed the system to not reward kills with currency. Currency comes from the completion of content, which requires realm-wide coordinated effort to enable and engage in.

Suggestions like this have been heard before, they haven't been implemented because it is diametrically opposed to the concept we have implemented currently. We are very aware how simple and easy it would be to just give a teeny tiny chance for currency to drop in RvR, but this currency is not intended as an RvR reward. RvR is the gate to Fort/City content. Fort/City content is where you earn this currency.

You know all of this, suggest it anyway, and I certainly hope you're not surprised by the answer.
This was a long winded way to say you want to drive away your playerbase.
Why are you still here? Surely you can go farm coins in some mobile game or play a shooter with perfect balance and matchmaking.
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

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Ramlaen
Posts: 17

Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#9 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:19 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:14 pm
Ramlaen wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:13 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:11 pm
We have explicitly and very intentionally designed the system to not reward kills with currency. Currency comes from the completion of content, which requires realm-wide coordinated effort to enable and engage in.

Suggestions like this have been heard before, they haven't been implemented because it is diametrically opposed to the concept we have implemented currently. We are very aware how simple and easy it would be to just give a teeny tiny chance for currency to drop in RvR, but this currency is not intended as an RvR reward. RvR is the gate to Fort/City content. Fort/City content is where you earn this currency.

You know all of this, suggest it anyway, and I certainly hope you're not surprised by the answer.
This was a long winded way to say you want to drive away your playerbase.
Why are you still here? Surely you can go farm coins in some mobile game or play a shooter with perfect balance and matchmaking.
I said nothing about balance and matchmaking, why the deflection?

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Telen
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Re: Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

Post#10 » Wed May 20, 2020 3:32 pm

I think most players just want to feel they have a chance to progress their character when they log in at prime and the campaign has stalled. I dont think the ethical question of others abusing systems really comes into it for the player. Do you make a system harder to access for people without the time/commitment needed because some would abuse. Thats a question not just for gaming.
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