Recent Topics

Ads

thunderous blow

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
User avatar
normanis
Posts: 581
Contact:

Re: thunderous blow

Post#61 » Thu May 28, 2020 2:31 pm

nat3s wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:06 am
normanis wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:09 am
destro alredy have chossen free wounds debuff and wych wounds debuff and mara wounds debuff
order need spec for it or wait 40lvl and use 2h.
p.s 3 wounds debuff vs 2
p.ss 3 pulls vs 1 good pull and 1 shitty . where is balance in this game

Conveniently missed out the 4 pounces to 1 there! Pounces being wayyyyy stronger than pulls in every regard.

Also worth adding WL pull is way better than Mara which fails around 70% of the time and is a 2s cast (WL pet pull being instant).
4 pounces?
maby something changed with some ninja fixes. byt i know wl got punce, than msquig got punce. asw got charge and msquig also got charge. sm pounce is morale 2 and not always works when i whant ( enemu fled to thei wc ). lol wl pull works if u knock down target and are pet biased while mara works in anystance . choppa random free pulls offc is still better tham mara. :D

Ads
nat3s
Posts: 287

Re: thunderous blow

Post#62 » Thu May 28, 2020 5:40 pm

No idea why i put 4, meant 3 (WL, aSW, SM)
Destruction - Pain and Pleasure Guild

Defraz rr81 Magus
Defrack rr80 Mara
rr6x AM, Sham, Choppa

teiloh
Posts: 287

Re: thunderous blow

Post#63 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:22 pm

nat3s wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 5:40 pm
No idea why i put 4, meant 3 (WL, aSW, SM)
Pounces are not more powerful than pulls. Destro needs to stop with this lobbying-style propaganda to try to make their realm even more overpowered.

Pulls threaten everyone on a map. It's like having a queen on a chessboard.

A "pounce" is simply a speed boost/snare by other means as far as "gap closers" go and Destro has 4 speed boosts that aren't mirrored on Order.

teiloh
Posts: 287

Re: thunderous blow

Post#64 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:23 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:02 am
So between boredom and insomnia, wanted to post this, a tale of the old original Thunderous Blows, for any Marauder players who didn't play WAR at release.

So at release, Thunderous Blows was a 5 point mastery ability, same icon it has now (and maybe similar damage, I forgot how hard it hit), in the Savagery path.

However, Thunderous Blows was not a wounds debuff at this time. It was actually one of the most frustrating and overpowered skills to fight against in the entire game (outside of the crazy AoE spam at the time). What Thunderous Blows was, was a build time increaser!

A build time increaser!? That's it? We have those in the game now you might say. Well yes, indeed we do, classes like the Chosen even get AoE build time increasers. However, Thunderous Blows was unique in it's functionality as it was the only build time increaser that gave a +1 second build time to all abilities.

Not all spells. All abilities.

What this means is that it gave every melee ability, every action, everything you can possibly do using a skill, a 1 second cast time (that can be pushed back of course, and/or even interrupted). In these days, the Marauder was a nightmare to fight in any small scale engagement. 1v1 a Mara? You'd be lucky if you actually got to use any of your skills.

Furthermore, unlike the current build time increasers, Thunderous Blows was not percentaged based as I mentioned above, it was always a flat 1 second increase, so it also impacted non-instant cast abilities, such as spells with build times. A 1 second cast became 2, a 2 became 3, and so on and so forth.

Eventually (it didn't take that long, roughly I'm going to say 9-12 months after release), Thunderous Blows was changed into the old version of the 160 wounds debuff. At the time, the Marauder community was not happy (nobody is ever happy with nerfs), but in retrospect that skill was so horribly broken and made playing the game so unfun for everyone else that it just had to be changed.

Most people know the rest: It was a 160 wounds debuff, it was a good skill, but not considered to be too OP on live (and it didn't stack, just over-wrote other wounds debuffs), and it remained at 5 points in the mastery path. In ROR, it was changed to be 13 points and to reduce the wounds debuff value to 100, during a period of time in which T2 was the highest level of content and most people were running around with 4-6k wounds. And that is how we got to where it is today, and why threads like this exist.

#cantsleep
With Chosen Aura and MoT thrown in Destro could stack it to +2.5s, while Sorcs and Zealots could spam knockbacks with Triumphant Blasting (no immunity) and Winds of Insanity (usable on the move on a 16s timer), which meant they could lock a zerg into permanently losing control over their characters and literally not being able to use any abilities. Destro claimed tHiS waS BaLanCed.

Foofmonger
Posts: 520

Re: thunderous blow

Post#65 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 pm

teiloh wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:22 pm
nat3s wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 5:40 pm
No idea why i put 4, meant 3 (WL, aSW, SM)
Pounces are not more powerful than pulls. Destro needs to stop with this lobbying-style propaganda to try to make their realm even more overpowered.

Pulls threaten everyone on a map. It's like having a queen on a chessboard.

A "pounce" is simply a speed boost/snare by other means as far as "gap closers" go and Destro has 4 speed boosts that aren't mirrored on Order.
Agreed, pounces are not more powerful than pulls. They aren't really on the same access and serve completely different functions, so I agree.

However, as far as gap closer goes, that's not all Pounce is (not all gap closers) because when you can use a gap closer on a friendly target, it is not a "gap closer" but a "gap maker".

Pounce is one of the strongest skills in the game (always has been) and it's not because of it's use as a gap closer. It's real strength is in it's defensive viability to allow the WL to have the highest effective survivability of any MDPS class assuming they aren't horrible at using their class.

Foofmonger
Posts: 520

Re: thunderous blow

Post#66 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:35 pm

teiloh wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:23 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:02 am
So between boredom and insomnia, wanted to post this, a tale of the old original Thunderous Blows, for any Marauder players who didn't play WAR at release.

So at release, Thunderous Blows was a 5 point mastery ability, same icon it has now (and maybe similar damage, I forgot how hard it hit), in the Savagery path.

However, Thunderous Blows was not a wounds debuff at this time. It was actually one of the most frustrating and overpowered skills to fight against in the entire game (outside of the crazy AoE spam at the time). What Thunderous Blows was, was a build time increaser!

A build time increaser!? That's it? We have those in the game now you might say. Well yes, indeed we do, classes like the Chosen even get AoE build time increasers. However, Thunderous Blows was unique in it's functionality as it was the only build time increaser that gave a +1 second build time to all abilities.

Not all spells. All abilities.

What this means is that it gave every melee ability, every action, everything you can possibly do using a skill, a 1 second cast time (that can be pushed back of course, and/or even interrupted). In these days, the Marauder was a nightmare to fight in any small scale engagement. 1v1 a Mara? You'd be lucky if you actually got to use any of your skills.

Furthermore, unlike the current build time increasers, Thunderous Blows was not percentaged based as I mentioned above, it was always a flat 1 second increase, so it also impacted non-instant cast abilities, such as spells with build times. A 1 second cast became 2, a 2 became 3, and so on and so forth.

Eventually (it didn't take that long, roughly I'm going to say 9-12 months after release), Thunderous Blows was changed into the old version of the 160 wounds debuff. At the time, the Marauder community was not happy (nobody is ever happy with nerfs), but in retrospect that skill was so horribly broken and made playing the game so unfun for everyone else that it just had to be changed.

Most people know the rest: It was a 160 wounds debuff, it was a good skill, but not considered to be too OP on live (and it didn't stack, just over-wrote other wounds debuffs), and it remained at 5 points in the mastery path. In ROR, it was changed to be 13 points and to reduce the wounds debuff value to 100, during a period of time in which T2 was the highest level of content and most people were running around with 4-6k wounds. And that is how we got to where it is today, and why threads like this exist.

#cantsleep
With Chosen Aura and MoT thrown in Destro could stack it to +2.5s, while Sorcs and Zealots could spam knockbacks with Triumphant Blasting (no immunity) and Winds of Insanity (usable on the move on a 16s timer), which meant they could lock a zerg into permanently losing control over their characters and literally not being able to use any abilities. Destro claimed tHiS waS BaLanCed.
It was not balanced for sure.

teiloh
Posts: 287

Re: thunderous blow

Post#67 » Fri May 29, 2020 12:11 am

Foofmonger wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 pm

Agreed, pounces are not more powerful than pulls. They aren't really on the same access and serve completely different functions, so I agree.

However, as far as gap closer goes, that's not all Pounce is (not all gap closers) because when you can use a gap closer on a friendly target, it is not a "gap closer" but a "gap maker".

Pounce is one of the strongest skills in the game (always has been) and it's not because of it's use as a gap closer. It's real strength is in it's defensive viability to allow the WL to have the highest effective survivability of any MDPS class assuming they aren't horrible at using their class.
gAp ClOseR is the political term Destro lobbyists use to oversell things like Wings of Heaven and Pounce. I don't include Pounce in survivability because it's more of a mobility tool. Yes, mobility can help you do your job, but it also requires compromises on position. Pounce can let you jump out of an overextend or into a disorganized line, but if you're Pouncing away it means you're doing no damage. A class with high defenses (to be more precise), or survivability, can stay stuck in and keep doing their job.

All mobility tools on WHO are powerful. Sham/SH speed boost tactic are also among the best abilities in the game.

Foofmonger
Posts: 520

Re: thunderous blow

Post#68 » Fri May 29, 2020 12:20 pm

teiloh wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:11 am
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 pm

Agreed, pounces are not more powerful than pulls. They aren't really on the same access and serve completely different functions, so I agree.

However, as far as gap closer goes, that's not all Pounce is (not all gap closers) because when you can use a gap closer on a friendly target, it is not a "gap closer" but a "gap maker".

Pounce is one of the strongest skills in the game (always has been) and it's not because of it's use as a gap closer. It's real strength is in it's defensive viability to allow the WL to have the highest effective survivability of any MDPS class assuming they aren't horrible at using their class.
gAp ClOseR is the political term Destro lobbyists use to oversell things like Wings of Heaven and Pounce. I don't include Pounce in survivability because it's more of a mobility tool. Yes, mobility can help you do your job, but it also requires compromises on position. Pounce can let you jump out of an overextend or into a disorganized line, but if you're Pouncing away it means you're doing no damage. A class with high defenses (to be more precise), or survivability, can stay stuck in and keep doing their job.

All mobility tools on WHO are powerful. Sham/SH speed boost tactic are also among the best abilities in the game.
Absolutely agreed with your main points. The only real nuance here is that when pounce has a 0 second CD, the whole "means you are doing no damage" concept doesn't really hold up, as you will only be doing no damage for roughly 1.5-2 seconds (the GCD and the time it takes you to get the new target and hit pounce again).

When pounce has a CD, then yes, it's very much like you describe above. That being said, a good loner spec wl in ROR should be able to use pounce properly as a defensive tool.

Ads
User avatar
wildwindblows
Posts: 203

Re: thunderous blow

Post#69 » Fri May 29, 2020 12:50 pm

teiloh wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:11 am
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 pm

Agreed, pounces are not more powerful than pulls. They aren't really on the same access and serve completely different functions, so I agree.

However, as far as gap closer goes, that's not all Pounce is (not all gap closers) because when you can use a gap closer on a friendly target, it is not a "gap closer" but a "gap maker".

Pounce is one of the strongest skills in the game (always has been) and it's not because of it's use as a gap closer. It's real strength is in it's defensive viability to allow the WL to have the highest effective survivability of any MDPS class assuming they aren't horrible at using their class.
gAp ClOseR is the political term Destro lobbyists use to oversell things like Wings of Heaven and Pounce. I don't include Pounce in survivability because it's more of a mobility tool. Yes, mobility can help you do your job, but it also requires compromises on position. Pounce can let you jump out of an overextend or into a disorganized line, but if you're Pouncing away it means you're doing no damage. A class with high defenses (to be more precise), or survivability, can stay stuck in and keep doing their job.

All mobility tools on WHO are powerful. Sham/SH speed boost tactic are also among the best abilities in the game.
This topic is about thunderous blow and order is manipulating again. Marauder's pull is nothing compared to wl's pull and pounce.
If you have some idea for wl, please create another topic. Current marauders problems are thunderous blow isn't competative and stance dance doesn't worth (and pull ofc).

Foofmonger
Posts: 520

Re: thunderous blow

Post#70 » Fri May 29, 2020 2:00 pm

wildwindblows wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:50 pm
teiloh wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:11 am
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 pm

Agreed, pounces are not more powerful than pulls. They aren't really on the same access and serve completely different functions, so I agree.

However, as far as gap closer goes, that's not all Pounce is (not all gap closers) because when you can use a gap closer on a friendly target, it is not a "gap closer" but a "gap maker".

Pounce is one of the strongest skills in the game (always has been) and it's not because of it's use as a gap closer. It's real strength is in it's defensive viability to allow the WL to have the highest effective survivability of any MDPS class assuming they aren't horrible at using their class.
gAp ClOseR is the political term Destro lobbyists use to oversell things like Wings of Heaven and Pounce. I don't include Pounce in survivability because it's more of a mobility tool. Yes, mobility can help you do your job, but it also requires compromises on position. Pounce can let you jump out of an overextend or into a disorganized line, but if you're Pouncing away it means you're doing no damage. A class with high defenses (to be more precise), or survivability, can stay stuck in and keep doing their job.

All mobility tools on WHO are powerful. Sham/SH speed boost tactic are also among the best abilities in the game.
This topic is about thunderous blow and order is manipulating again. Marauder's pull is nothing compared to wl's pull and pounce.
If you have some idea for wl, please create another topic. Current marauders problems are thunderous blow isn't competative and stance dance doesn't worth (and pull ofc).
Teiloh and I tend to go off topic when we get into discussions. You are correct, we are slightly off-topic as the chain of conversation has veered away from TB. This thread also isn't about "all Marauder desires/proposals", just TB. So also speaking about stances and pulls is technically also off topic. There is no order vs destro conspiracy here, I'm as cupable for going off-topic as Teiloh is and I only play destro and only play Marauder.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AlexArcade and 9 guests