[SW] Glass Arrow

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agemennon675
Posts: 170

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#41 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:44 pm

Uchoo wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:32 pm
I can understand SW's who find this as a nerf due to range but I encourage you to consider your kit now and get a lot of experience under your belt before you post a public opinion.

Things to consider:
You are now shorter range with the aoe tactic, you will need a guard to do your job.
Your damage potential is much, much, much higher. You are probably worth the guard.
Are you having trouble getting value from your aoe Spiral-Fletched Arrow because if the first target dodges or blocks, the skill doesn't aoe? That's a very large problem and in my opinion is the first thing that needs to change in some way.


As a sidenote, a lot of people would prefer you being shorter range. It means you have to operate closer to your tank and guard range isn't so much of a hassle.
The problem I have is nothing big I think it would be much better if the aoe tactic reduced all my range when used but we should keep SW 98ft skirmish without aoe that is the only spec that you can kite, you cannot kite and deal dmg with Scout spec and its pretty much dead weight to any party Magus and Engi can do what scout can and much better, dont know if they intentionally removed the 98ft range kite potential since it is annoying to play against which is very reasonable change as long as SH also gets the same treatment

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Uchoo
Posts: 228

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#42 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:57 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Broadhead 100 feet base without the tactic, 110 feet in Scout? I think Spiral Fletched Arrow has quite the range without the tactic as well.

As far as Magus and Engi go, I tend to disagree. Their spec is great if they can set up their pet and get to full stacks, then dot you once or twice, line up a 3s cast and some other stuff.

SW may be shorter range in Scout but the damage is very high and very fast, so I find it quite more mobile and flexible than the Engi/Magus counterpart. I'm in Mercenary and RR45 right now so I have nowhere to go but up and I'm already feeling pretty good about my output. I can't imagine this spec in gear with a skilled player.

Of course, Gun Turret is far stronger than the Pink Horror so Engineers can light up a low armor target without dots lol. Snipe > Focused Fire. Hip Shot if you need to.
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shadowcraft22
Posts: 8

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#43 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:51 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:15 am
Where were you when they cried about 'dmg sux'.
I was happily enjoying my class.
Like most people i don't bother with the forums unless i think there's a problem.

As i've stated elsewhere, i decided to try SW out mostly because of all the people whining about them. I discovered they were actually really fun and an excellent class if played properly. This whole "well now you need a guard" is bullshit. ANY class can feel amazing with constant heals and guarding. My point is the other 80% of the time i'm playing the game and i'm not being babysat i'm gimped. Who cares if i do more damage if i have operate deep INSIDE the range of every other ranged class?? Before with power draw's 50% increase, i could operate at 97yards. It was inside but not too much, so it worked, 65 yards is absolutely ridiculous. If they wanted to add this functionality, They could have changed Keen arrowheads (the duration increase talent in skrim) and left powerful draw alone. They should not be making changes just to satisfy whiners - Because whiners are NEVER satisfied. Nor should you balance a class around optimum conditions only. Because what you are actually doing is weakening them the rest of the time they arent experiencing optimum situations.

We aren't all jaded level 40s farming only city and fort instances in full guild warbands waiting for our medals to accrue. Some of us actually hop into random warbands and are looking for some fun in the evenings. These "buffs" aren't buffs at all, and honestly its disappointing that you don't see this.

Zymer
Posts: 33

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#44 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:02 am

Tankbeardz wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:02 pm
Caduceus wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:25 pm
I'm noticing people are saying the recent changes to SW are a nerf.

That is complete and utter nonsense.
Other than Glass Arrow...it's definitely a nerf to rSW. If you can't see that, you still don't understand the class.
The changes to Glass Arrow are a bit ridiculous though. Granted I’m only in my 20s on my SW, but I am straight up destroying people in scenarios. Maybe it’s not as bad in T4, but SW is extremely oppressive once you get GA. The only skills I use are Broadhead Arrow, Rapid Fire and Vengeance. I started leveling this guy a week before the buffs, and was having fun. Now I lose DPS/burst if I try to use any skill other than the above. It’s actually brain dead easy and not as fun as it was before.

Other than tank classes, everyone seems to melt to Rapid Fire + GA procs. I don’t know how they can fix RSW, but the current burst is out of control. Probably more burst on ST than my WL who is 10 levels higher (and I get to do it from range)

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Manatikik
Posts: 1174

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#45 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:23 am

Zymer wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:02 am
Tankbeardz wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:02 pm
Caduceus wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:25 pm
I'm noticing people are saying the recent changes to SW are a nerf.

That is complete and utter nonsense.
Other than Glass Arrow...it's definitely a nerf to rSW. If you can't see that, you still don't understand the class.
The changes to Glass Arrow are a bit ridiculous though. Granted I’m only in my 20s on my SW, but I am straight up destroying people in scenarios. Maybe it’s not as bad in T4, but SW is extremely oppressive once you get GA. The only skills I use are Broadhead Arrow, Rapid Fire and Vengeance. I started leveling this guy a week before the buffs, and was having fun. Now I lose DPS/burst if I try to use any skill other than the above. It’s actually brain dead easy and not as fun as it was before.

Other than tank classes, everyone seems to melt to Rapid Fire + GA procs. I don’t know how they can fix RSW, but the current burst is out of control. Probably more burst on ST than my WL who is 10 levels higher (and I get to do it from range)
Mid tier isnt a good indicator of how things are balanced. Glass Arrow with rapid fire will be strong in mid-tier but Glass Arrow is the only thing at 40 that makes Rapid Fire not 100% useless. Gameplay changes significantly once everyone gets all their tools and stats.
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anarchypark
Posts: 1647

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#46 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:48 am

shadowcraft22 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:51 pm
anarchypark wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:15 am
Where were you when they cried about 'dmg sux'.
I was happily enjoying my class.
Like most people i don't bother with the forums unless i think there's a problem.

As i've stated elsewhere, i decided to try SW out mostly because of all the people whining about them. I discovered they were actually really fun and an excellent class if played properly. This whole "well now you need a guard" is bullshit. ANY class can feel amazing with constant heals and guarding. My point is the other 80% of the time i'm playing the game and i'm not being babysat i'm gimped. Who cares if i do more damage if i have operate deep INSIDE the range of every other ranged class?? Before with power draw's 50% increase, i could operate at 97yards. It was inside but not too much, so it worked, 65 yards is absolutely ridiculous. If they wanted to add this functionality, They could have changed Keen arrowheads (the duration increase talent in skrim) and left powerful draw alone. They should not be making changes just to satisfy whiners - Because whiners are NEVER satisfied. Nor should you balance a class around optimum conditions only. Because what you are actually doing is weakening them the rest of the time they arent experiencing optimum situations.

We aren't all jaded level 40s farming only city and fort instances in full guild warbands waiting for our medals to accrue. Some of us actually hop into random warbands and are looking for some fun in the evenings. These "buffs" aren't buffs at all, and honestly its disappointing that you don't see this.

It's more like shifting than buff/nerf.
you were fine with skirmisher, i was fine with scout. It doesn't matter since it's mmo.
devs care much about grp play. and evidence showed that range SW didn't have role in wb.
so they shifted mid range tree to aoe wb tree.
buffing skirmisher dmg had side effect of Scout OP dmg.

though your toy got changed, kite style is still possible on scout.
adapt to stand still for 1~2sec and you'll be fine.
or stick to skirmisher and evolve. looks like high risk high return.
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Xergon
Posts: 584

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#47 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:40 am

Wow, just wow.

I seriously cannot believe u guys actually thinking those changes are bad for SW. Overall is huge boost to both DMG and usability of SW in current form.

U wanna play RangeSW ? U have Scout spec which gained high burst and high dot pressure.

U wanna play ST Melee ? U got ASW with another boost tactic.

U wanna play AoE viable spec ? U got Skirmish with a lot boost.

Not even they removed nerfing dmg on Spiral Fletched Arrows but they boosted abilities like Barrage and gave u 2 AoE dots on top of that, how can u cry about... They even gave u 350 WeaponSkill worth Tactic as PERMANENT...

Sure u lost range mobile spec, oh well, guess what, U CANT HAVE **** EVERYTHING, god fuking damn it...

U can play Skimish as AoE viable spec w/o proper support, but its starts shining when u actually get proper support from SM with WW and guard and heal.
Who ever say that Skirmish SW is light armor therefore it cannot play close range, WTF ??? So BWs in RvR doing exacly what ? Right now, as Skirmish AoE u got almost similar dmg potential as BW, yet u still not as squishy as them. With FM up i can assure u, u can do more dmg than any BW during VoN and WW up.

Ppl just need to learn how to play new SW, sure its gonna take long time for ppl who played this class DIFFERNTLY to start playing it ACCORDINGLY to its current strenghts...
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Fenris78
Posts: 158

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#48 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:39 pm

Xergon wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:40 am
Wow, just wow.

I seriously cannot believe u guys actually thinking those changes are bad for SW. Overall is huge boost to both DMG and usability of SW in current form.

U wanna play RangeSW ? U have Scout spec which gained high burst and high dot pressure.

U wanna play ST Melee ? U got ASW with another boost tactic.

U wanna play AoE viable spec ? U got Skirmish with a lot boost.

Not even they removed nerfing dmg on Spiral Fletched Arrows but they boosted abilities like Barrage and gave u 2 AoE dots on top of that, how can u cry about... They even gave u 350 WeaponSkill worth Tactic as PERMANENT...

Sure u lost range mobile spec, oh well, guess what, U CANT HAVE **** EVERYTHING, god fuking damn it...

U can play Skimish as AoE viable spec w/o proper support, but its starts shining when u actually get proper support from SM with WW and guard and heal.
Who ever say that Skirmish SW is light armor therefore it cannot play close range, WTF ??? So BWs in RvR doing exacly what ? Right now, as Skirmish AoE u got almost similar dmg potential as BW, yet u still not as squishy as them. With FM up i can assure u, u can do more dmg than any BW during VoN and WW up.

Ppl just need to learn how to play new SW, sure its gonna take long time for ppl who played this class DIFFERNTLY to start playing it ACCORDINGLY to its current strenghts...
+1, thanks for input, I mostly agree on that.

After some test, I respecced to skirmish AoE and scout (festering+FtW) and currently enjoy the versatility AoE tactic brings to the table ; now I can deal very satisfying damage with my most used skills (SFA and BHA), and use all ranges when needed, be useful in siege with two long-range magical attacks for oil (FtW being Spirit when Vengeful), and good ST potential as well.

Only changes I wish from now :

- removal of x3 stack of BHA ; it's a pain to stack three times the DoT, especially with range reduction and block/dodge that prevent applying on other targets, not to mention cleanse that remove all stacks (waste of AP for us).
Either make it x2 stack (with slight up in damage, total less than x3), or revert it to non-stackable, with a bit more damage maybe (if the intended goal is to make the skill more pressuring).

- Glass arrow now feels too strong with rapide fire ; either make Glass Arrow proc max. 1 per second (so 3 procs per rapid fire instead of 6, that will nerf a bit the crosscut burst as well), with a slight base damage increase of Rapid Fire.

- Lileath Arrow with 5s cast is useless ; SFA is far more efficient now (with tactic), Aoe-Wise, DPS-wise and AP per DPS-wise. Please revert to no cd (or make it linked to Vengeful state ?). It's currently far for being most efficient skill, need to be very close to enemy (0ft to 65ft LINE AoE is very different from 65+ft + 20ft AoE) and the 2s cast is already a big nerf itself (and not worth using expert skirmisher tactic only for it).

- All skirmish skills should be castable on the move, to avoid being further impaired by Steady Aim (maybe add this bonus on Skirmish stance ?)

- Make more bonuses or tactic side effects linked to Vengeful state, it's a good idea !


Either than that I feel the ranged SW currently more threatening, but also more boring to play : AoE spam is so easy I'm mainly using all my AP to place x3 BHA on AoE targeting mostly tanks, and SFA when finally the 3 DoTs are ticking, meaning only 2 skills are currently 75% of my damage output... not really as interesting as before.

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shadowcraft22
Posts: 8

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#49 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:53 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:48 am


It's more like shifting than buff/nerf.
you were fine with skirmisher, i was fine with scout. It doesn't matter since it's mmo.
devs care much about grp play. and evidence showed that range SW didn't have role in wb.

though your toy got changed, kite style is still possible on scout.
adapt to stand still for 1~2sec and you'll be fine.
or stick to skirmisher and evolve. looks like high risk high return.
it wasnt a "toy". It was the original intent of the game makers. Snatching a ranged ability from a ranged class while you "improve" the class is a bad joke. You can value groupplay all you want, calling it a buff whiel you nerf a class isnt good for anyone. It was already a risk running SW. nerfing them and increasing their damage "btw glass arrow only applies to in scout path damage" is stupid. They also scaled back the damage on the dots in skirm. So the little biscuit we were thrown while they robbed us of 50% ranged is now half as big. Great. I'm tired of playing these private servers while people nerf whatever annoys them and continue to buff their own favorite classes. I'm just glad i have something new to play now.

as for your evolve comment. I did plenty of evolving, i found an amazing spec in a class everyone swore sucked. That was taken away from the order and replaced with a limp single target dmg buff. You may be fine being served up a dogs dinner, but i'm not. I'm done.

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Stophy22
Posts: 339

Re: [SW] Glass Arrow

Post#50 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:58 pm

Fenris78 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:39 pm

- removal of x3 stack of BHA ; it's a pain to stack three times the DoT, especially with range reduction and block/dodge that prevent applying on other targets, not to mention cleanse that remove all stacks (waste of AP for us).
Either make it x2 stack (with slight up in damage, total less than x3), or revert it to non-stackable, with a bit more damage maybe (if the intended goal is to make the skill more pressuring).
Same changes for mara rend please!
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