Population migration concerns

[amagawd]

The only reason IC is pushed more consistently is because for the most part city win rates heavily favor destro. As has been pointed out, 2 city wins for order recently and that's about it. So just do the math:

Pushing a 5 star IC resulting in a destro win brings it to 3 stars...so push it again, because the crest payout is still worth it.

Push a 5 star Altdorf resulting in a destro win and it's back to 1 star. Poop city. Every time. So you wait and push IC in the meantime.

Destro's more steady winrate in cities over the past months+ just means it's easier to farm crests by pushing IC since it spends more time at a crest-worthy rank (3-5). Smart cityloggers wait until Altdorf reaches 5 stars because, in anticipation of a destro win, it's the biggest bang for your buck before it gets reset to 1 star.

This might be closer to the truth, yes! Well pointed!

[GamesBond]

I hope it's my mistake thinking the Devs are Order biased.

After celebrating 6 years, I would've thought u knew better...

It's funny you still haven't nerfed WL tbh, I understand Secrets plays one but cmon

Do I need to enroll as a dev on the server to get some buffs on destro side? I got some Python xp, so hit me up.

Quick tip: there's a 100% crit chance that your whole topic loses credibility when people read these stuff. I was interested in reading and I'm sure many were as well, but when you (or anyone else) use these judgmental, totally wrong, arguments... You know...

[BeautfulToad]

Destro have been popular for weeks, order getting popular now. Nothing you can do about it, and dont let that rush development in my opinion.

[jvlosky]

It has been 8 days since the SW/morale patch and Order has won two cities (NA time) since then. If the player base on Destro are so fickle, that after months of utter dominance, they are ready jettison because a few losses that have *balanced* the win ratio, then there is no fixing this game regardless. You can't account in development for mouth breathers chasing easy-mode.

Frankly, sit back and enjoy the AAO and shorter queue times like I have the last 8 months.

Beautifully written

[Valarion]

If things don't move toward a more balanced position between the factions, I'm afraid every1 will just play Order. In 2 weeks of casual play you can get 40, so I might as well reroll order too, why stay on the side that gets permanent kicks in the teeth? And all the city loggers on destro side thinking they are the best for winning cities, that might change soon.

Before this thread gets locked again, I'd just like to give the community some context here:

Klindor isnt your average player, he plays often and I frequently see him volunteer his time to lead Destro pug wbs everyday and we all know how painful that can be. Whether you agree with him or not, when he speaks the community should at least listen just a little and take it with a grain of salt. While his experience lacks the hard data I know we all like to see, his opinion does speak for a lot of experienced gamers Ive talked to who are remaining silent right now and at least trying to give these buffs a pass. These changes do not affect me as much because I xrealm and I strangely enjoy it the harder things get. However I will say this:

The very last thing that should have been buffed was a rdps class on a side that already has rdps supremacy.

It really doesnt matter if SH buffs were coming later or not or if these buffs were reasonable or even unreasonable. It just really doesnt look good. Bad perceptions (wrong or right) lead to population migrations and thats when bad things happen.

[Josewales]

Another cool story about OPs complaining about OPs. Order complains about Destro also. That sounds like balance to me. Everyone should have the equal opportunity to complain.

[Foofmonger]

I don't understand why people still keep decrying class balance as the issue when we as a community have discussed this to death and the root cause of this issue is not balance, it's class distribution.

After some great community members did some data mining as far as class population go on both sides, a very interesting picture emerged:

1. Destro has fairly even class distribution. Some spikes here and there but overall fairly balancd.
2. Order has extremely uneven class distribution. Over 30% of their playerbase plays just 3 classes, Brightwizards, Engineers, and Warrior Priests.

Orders "Ranged Dominance" is not about balance (PRIOR TO THE SW BUFFS), it's about the fact that they just have far more RDPS out in the field than destro. This is the same issue that causes "Order losing cities", because they don't have enough tanks to fields 2/2/2 balanced warbands and a ton of BWs/Engines who have to pug the city because of their odd class distribution.

So literally, both Destro and Order whines on this same subject (Order is too good at pushing orvr and defending, Destro wins too many cities) has the exact same root cause, and it's not just a simple "haha side who win more more strong" lazy-ass analysis. The root cause is that Order has a funky class distribution and too many players playing BWs and Engies. This makes them very strong in open field/large wbvswb/keep defenses, but not as strong in smaller, more contained content that isn't as open (such as the city).

The solution isn't to change balance, to change the games code, to argue endlessly on the forums while missing the entire point. The solution is very simple, roughly 50% of BW and Engie players need to reroll into IBs/SMs/Knights. Now Order will win cities more often, and there will be more equal levels of RDPS in ORVR.

Also, RSHs are still slated for a buff so when that happens it will hopefully equate to parity between the RSH and RSW classes.

Anyone who with a straight face, can say that RSW didn't need any buffs at all is not someone I will take seriously. - I say this a destro player who almost never plays Order and doesn't have an Order character outside of T1.

People really need to get this tribalism and polarization out of their psyche's in this community. It's not healthy, it's not accurate, and it's just an overly simple way of looking at the world for people who don't actually want to examine the truth and their own biases.

[Zymer]

2. Order has extremely uneven class distribution. Over 30% of their playerbase plays just 3 classes, Brightwizards, Engineers, and Warrior Priests.

3 out of 12 classes making up 30% isn't that crazy IMO. I'm actually surprised it's not more than 30%. 3/12 is 25% (perfect distribution), so 30% isn't that crazy. It's actually very normal. It's probably similar or maybe even higher than Destro top 3.

[Foofmonger]

2. Order has extremely uneven class distribution. Over 30% of their playerbase plays just 3 classes, Brightwizards, Engineers, and Warrior Priests.

3 out of 12 classes making up 30% isn't that crazy IMO. I'm actually surprised it's not more than 30%. 3/12 is 25%, so 30% isn't that crazy.

Yea I just didn't have the exact number, it's "over" 30%, I believe offhand it's around 40% (15% WP, 13% bw, 12% engie). It maybe more like 38-39%, but I have to go dig up those stats.

In comparison to destro, which I believe only has 1 class that is played by over 10% of the population (the DOK).

I can try to find the link if you'd like.

Edit: It's buried somewhere in this thread. I dug through 25 pages before I have other things I need to do, but I'm sure someone can find it: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38063&start=500

[MetalWrath666]

Hello everybody, and thanks to the Dev for their amazing job keeping this, for me, "unknown" game alive. I never played it before and I really enjoying it thanks to you guys, well done!
So as you might noticed this is my first post here. I've start recently to play this game (4 weeks ago probably?) and I decided to go Destruction. I felt in love with the Chosen and I was enjoing the balance of the player base at the beginning, the RvR was very good (T1 for me) were you had to put efforts to actually won your battle.
But here is the think, have you looked at the PvP status before lvl 40 now? In this topic is talking about Cities and high level cap, which is fair, is the end game, but how can I reach the end game if is impossibile to have a good win ratio so to progress towards CR40?
It has been already 2 weeks were Destro is rekt by Order in both side (Scenarios and RvR), with an avarage of 2 victories in 10 battles. It is evident that there are a lot of premades group on Order side with very skilled people, and this brings unbalance on the battle (SC). I'm not aware if there are any limits at the moment for the premades group (I usually play in a group of 3 people maximum) so if there aren't any, would it be a good opportunity to put a limits on premade groups (for Scenarios only)?

Also I've noticed that usually there are so many healers on Order side, like yesterday in one battle there were 4 healers on Order and just 1 on Destro. If you want screens I can do them, but it seems that the matchmaking system is not fair as well. Anyway just login on Destro side between 2 and 39 level now and you will feel the massive difference.

This is not a complaint, I want to make it clear, but a suggestion to improve more the health of this game because as long as the situation will be the same I'm pretty sure people will leave this game pretty easely.