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Healing nerf

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tommydgun
Posts: 17

Re: Healing nerf

Post#31 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:54 am

Healing and armor talismans are beyond broken in this game. A dps who can still crit for over 1k and have 5-6k armor (white lion, assault shadow warrior) shouldn't exist and healers shouldn't be able to facetank 6 dps endlessly *cough warrior priests cough*.

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Nameless
Posts: 808

Re: Healing nerf

Post#32 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:42 am

tommydgun wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:54 am
Healing and armor talismans are beyond broken in this game. A dps who can still crit for over 1k and have 5-6k armor (white lion, assault shadow warrior) shouldn't exist and healers shouldn't be able to facetank 6 dps endlessly *cough warrior priests cough*.
This can be done only by dok/wp. Am/sham and rp/zl got some tools that could temporally increase survivability but they are quite well balanced, and got some counterplays.

Other than that I agree armor stacking is kinda broken and mess with archetype balance. Each archetype should have individual armor cap to prevent overstacking armor on classes that are not intended to reach tanks armor levels
Mostly harmless

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Jeliel80
Posts: 75

Re: Healing nerf

Post#33 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:07 pm

Some even wb vs wb fights last long because it's easy to recover with resses, not because healing is overpowered (and city in particular are objective based with respawn/porting, so there's that on top).

Dok/WP are certainly tough, and look unkillable against unassisted dps/noobs, but are far from immortal against proper ST and debuffs/double hd.

The morale changes were needed a very very long time ago, now it's time to play the game properly.

What could be changed is how easy is to ress, and possibly getting back aoe heal debuff from RP/Zealots, that imho shouldn't have been removed to begin with.
http://www.seventhlegion.net/
Jeliell - RP 85
Jel - WP 83
Jelyel - DoK 7x

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2760

Re: Healing nerf

Post#34 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:16 pm

Sounds to me like the implementation of the stacking mechanic affecting moral dmg is having some negative outcomes. What would be the name of a term that's a reversed power creep? People warned about the long term effects of a nerf-chains long time ago. I think people are starting to noticing it. Now people discussing how healers should be nerfed. You're just creating a feedback loop.
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sogeou
Posts: 187

Re: Healing nerf

Post#35 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 pm

Nameless wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:42 am
tommydgun wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:54 am
Healing and armor talismans are beyond broken in this game. A dps who can still crit for over 1k and have 5-6k armor (white lion, assault shadow warrior) shouldn't exist and healers shouldn't be able to facetank 6 dps endlessly *cough warrior priests cough*.
This can be done only by dok/wp. Am/sham and rp/zl got some tools that could temporally increase survivability but they are quite well balanced, and got some counterplays.

Other than that I agree armor stacking is kinda broken and mess with archetype balance. Each archetype should have individual armor cap to prevent overstacking armor on classes that are not intended to reach tanks armor levels
This is 100% part of the problem. DOK / WP can pretty much take no damage in end game gear no matter who is attacking them. Seen many of times where 5 people are attacking them and they just stand their AOE detaunt and stay at 80% life. They need to make soft caps based on each type of gear type, light 2000 soft cap, medium 3000 , keep tanks same.

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Lithenir
Posts: 172

Re: Healing nerf

Post#36 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:35 pm

roadkillrobin wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:16 pm
Sounds to me like the implementation of the stacking mechanic affecting moral dmg is having some negative outcomes. What would be the name of a term that's a reversed power creep? People warned about the long term effects of a nerf-chains long time ago. I think people are starting to noticing it. Now people discussing how healers should be nerfed. You're just creating a feedback loop.
No negative outcomes. Just ppl who aren't able to adopt that there easy "wait for m2 bomb"-win is gone.
Now nerf AoE-Basedmg on all classes and large scale fights will start to become interesting again.

blechkautz
Posts: 59

Re: Healing nerf

Post#37 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:43 pm

sogeou wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 pm
Nameless wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:42 am
tommydgun wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:54 am
Healing and armor talismans are beyond broken in this game. A dps who can still crit for over 1k and have 5-6k armor (white lion, assault shadow warrior) shouldn't exist and healers shouldn't be able to facetank 6 dps endlessly *cough warrior priests cough*.
This can be done only by dok/wp. Am/sham and rp/zl got some tools that could temporally increase survivability but they are quite well balanced, and got some counterplays.

Other than that I agree armor stacking is kinda broken and mess with archetype balance. Each archetype should have individual armor cap to prevent overstacking armor on classes that are not intended to reach tanks armor levels
This is 100% part of the problem. DOK / WP can pretty much take no damage in end game gear no matter who is attacking them. Seen many of times where 5 people are attacking them and they just stand their AOE detaunt and stay at 80% life. They need to make soft caps based on each type of gear type, light 2000 soft cap, medium 3000 , keep tanks same.
Sounds like a l2p issue if 5 guys can't kill a lonely healer. Or did he have guard or other healers healing him?

Sulorie
Posts: 4786

Re: Healing nerf

Post#38 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:10 pm

sogeou wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 pm

This is 100% part of the problem. DOK / WP can pretty much take no damage in end game gear no matter who is attacking them. Seen many of times where 5 people are attacking them and they just stand their AOE detaunt and stay at 80% life. They need to make soft caps based on each type of gear type, light 2000 soft cap, medium 3000 , keep tanks same.
No, it's an attacker problem, because they are bad to attack properly. Healdebuffs, CC, being out of range of detaunt are all tools to kill them fast. But yeah, blame others or change the game to fit your liking.
Dying is no option.

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Tom
Posts: 81

Re: Healing nerf

Post#39 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:05 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:10 pm
sogeou wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 pm

This is 100% part of the problem. DOK / WP can pretty much take no damage in end game gear no matter who is attacking them. Seen many of times where 5 people are attacking them and they just stand their AOE detaunt and stay at 80% life. They need to make soft caps based on each type of gear type, light 2000 soft cap, medium 3000 , keep tanks same.
No, it's an attacker problem, because they are bad to attack properly. Healdebuffs, CC, being out of range of detaunt are all tools to kill them fast. But yeah, blame others or change the game to fit your liking.
I exclusively play small scale (outside of fortress/city obviously) and have yet to come across a healer that can't be beaten by a small party (I wish I had because I also play healer once in a while). Even if uber-defensive spec, there are always ways, between debuffing defenses, heal debuffs, silencing and interrupts, AP drains, morales, magic dmg, cooldown increase, etc, to break them, but yes, you will have to adjust your attacks to the target and pay attention to what they are doing as well. Against good players who know what they are doing, a standard 1-2-3-X vanilla rotation rarely does it .. and simply slapping a mind killer on someone as implied earlier in the thread, followed by some general bashing, and expecting them to fall is just not even trying. If you are as many as 5 people and can't coordinate to kill a healer the issue is with YOUR spec and/or playstyle, not the target's.

sogeou
Posts: 187

Re: Healing nerf

Post#40 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:10 pm
sogeou wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 pm

This is 100% part of the problem. DOK / WP can pretty much take no damage in end game gear no matter who is attacking them. Seen many of times where 5 people are attacking them and they just stand their AOE detaunt and stay at 80% life. They need to make soft caps based on each type of gear type, light 2000 soft cap, medium 3000 , keep tanks same.
No, it's an attacker problem, because they are bad to attack properly. Healdebuffs, CC, being out of range of detaunt are all tools to kill them fast. But yeah, blame others or change the game to fit your liking.

No it is a SOV DOK/ WP problem. Those classes need their armor reduced. Just alone they can aoe detaunt and heal thru damage. They reduce incoming damage by 75% with 500 toughness and 4k armor. So, yeah melee hitting them for 200-400 damage max while they are disrupting damage like crazy from BW's. All they need is to make SOV like live, they added extra armor count to SOV gear, which live did not have. Also, while damage is much lower on this server than live. It is not a problem always, just with over geared Russians who are all full sov from farming the city at like 4 am.

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