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Twyxx
Posts: 815

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#21 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:40 pm

Yes, let's lower the skillcap.
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MrCringe56
Posts: 18

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#22 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:53 pm

Twyxx wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:40 pm
Yes, let's lower the skillcap.
The skill gap currently is who ever has the most healers in scenarios wins which sucks for players that solo queue good luck having a fun experience when non stop you get matched with an enemy team that have 5 healers and you have 1 there is no way your going to win or have a fun time. My suggestion to limit the number of the same classes would solve this issue and make for more balanced scenario experience. Currently, about 80% of my scenario matches have been loses due to premades and over-saturation of healers.
Last edited by MrCringe56 on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gurtuk
Game Master
Posts: 149

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#23 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:56 pm

Destruction feels the same way about warrior priests or rune priests, nothing is wrong with healing.
gorbane - choppa

MrCringe56
Posts: 18

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#24 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:05 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:56 pm
Destruction feels the same way about warrior priests or rune priests, nothing is wrong with healing.

if its not the healing then its the discrepancy between the min and max number of healers for each team in scenarios
. Being able to solo queue and join a match where on your team their is 1 healer and on the enemy team their are 5 healers is just ridiculous and makes for these horrible experiences where the other team is immortal. This can happen with either faction and feel this could be improved by adding a min and max limit of the amount of same classes in a scenario match or w.e implementations the devs can figure out.
Last edited by MrCringe56 on Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Vandoles
Posts: 246

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#25 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:11 pm

Honestly, the issue is a core issue of War since its very inception, that the topic is written badly should not distract from that. If anyone remembers the super, super early development of the game, one point mentioned in the philosophy of pvp in war was - no healers. Now, they did eventually change their opinion and switched to a "no pure healers" idea. So WP/DoK were melee > healing, AM/Shaman were heal + dps at the same time, zealot/RP were supposed to be buffers + healing. Each of these was supposed to be 50/50 so healing was something they did as an addition. If you look at skills/systems you can kinda tell what the idea was.

Anyway, due to this being the initial idea, I assume is why no resource system was made for healers, due to the fact they weren't supposed to be pure healers, so a resource system was inherent (in that they couldn't spend all their time healing or they'd be trash). This also probably meant the ressurection system wasn't supposed to be as strong as it is.

However it worked out, I'm guessing it was way too hard to balance so it was scrapped and thus the books/chalices and pure healing speccs were conceived. For me it was like the "personal growth" system they envisioned, it sounded amazing to have your orc grow and your dwarfs beard change, but could never properly balance it (same as the trophy system initially, carving trophies out of dead people).

So anyway moving onto balance, in my opinion it just miraculously ended up sort of ok, with the intention of visceral combat actually going into tactical combat because now you needed coordination to kill anything. But it can make the game much less pleasant to play, because 90% of the time you're spamming skills onto a target accomplishing basically nothing, while a single healer can outheal a bunch of people. Now you can and will argue that this makes it much more fulfilling to play/coordinate as a group and I totally agree, I just think the trade-off is too huge. And I much prefer the initial idea, the one where we have no pure healers and everyone is a hybrid.

That said I think this is probably the most difficult balancing issue war ever had. To adress it you'd need to start at aoe then go through every single aspect of the game, then probably a few times over. It's a brilliant system, just screwed over from the very start, like I don't think it's viable to ask for the trophies from corpses or personal growth system. To me it was always the key to actually getting war to function, if you brought healing down to what it was supposed to you open the game for enjoyment to basically everyone, premades are no longer a full stop of even playing, outnumbered is not a full stop of playing. You get the point.

Sorry for wall of text, this is one of my biggest pains for the initial promises of war we never got to see and it still hurts...

Cobra81
Posts: 12

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#26 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:29 pm

I had a Chosen back on live and liked it. Here i played one until Lv20 and you can, even with 1H + Shield, doing massive damage to healers. Mostly thx to "Spirit" dmg.

Then ive tried a Kotbs and can´t do anything against it. I can´t even put pressure to destro healers and they ignoring me. Ive also seen 2 WL (Lv32+30) and 2 Slayers (Lv17+24) attacking a Lv37 Dok and they can´t kill him. Then they switched to Lv28 zealot and had the same result and then to Lv22 zealot and also no kill ^^

I play a RP as main and during the leveling process i got killed by 2H Chosen, 2H Black Orc + Chosen/Mara/Choppa as assist. Even with detaunting the Mara/choppa the dmg of a 2H Chosen or BO is enough to kill me. Playing a healer is not an immortal task ^^ not on Order side.

Dont forget that you are Lv25 with your knight and the level range goes to 39. Some uses very high Talismans and dozens of potions. A Lv35 with Merc set + high talismans + potions is close to immortal and can tank what a Lv25 Knight can throw at him.

MrCringe56
Posts: 18

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#27 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:40 pm

Cobra81 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:29 pm
I had a Chosen back on live and liked it. Here i played one until Lv20 and you can, even with 1H + Shield, doing massive damage to healers. Mostly thx to "Spirit" dmg.

Then ive tried a Kotbs and can´t do anything against it. I can´t even put pressure to destro healers and they ignoring me. Ive also seen 2 WL (Lv32+30) and 2 Slayers (Lv17+24) attacking a Lv37 Dok and they can´t kill him. Then they switched to Lv28 zealot and had the same result and then to Lv22 zealot and also no kill ^^

I play a RP as main and during the leveling process i got killed by 2H Chosen, 2H Black Orc + Chosen/Mara/Choppa as assist. Even with detaunting the Mara/choppa the dmg of a 2H Chosen or BO is enough to kill me. Playing a healer is not an immortal task ^^ not on Order side.

Dont forget that you are Lv25 with your knight and the level range goes to 39. Some uses very high Talismans and dozens of potions. A Lv35 with Merc set + high talismans + potions is close to immortal and can tank what a Lv25 Knight can throw at him.

That's True but its also happening in t1 scenarios on all the classes i tried and know why its happening reread my thread page 1

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Melekith
Posts: 21

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#28 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:27 am

MrCringe56 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:43 pm
gurtuk wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:56 pm
Destruction feels the same way about warrior priests or rune priests, nothing is wrong with healing.
As an example to my solution would be - while in the queuing process currently it just finds players and then gives you a popup to join..What I suggest is have it only give you a match if the amount of healers is equal to the min or max value or in between (min and max is subject to change). The purpose of this is to stop class saturation while giving a bit of room for some skill ceiling. So like a min of 3 and max of 5 per team so a team could have 2 more healers then the other team if 2 of the healer slots got taken by other classes.

Yes this would increase queue times but i would rather wait and get more average matches then play xx amount of horrible matches due to same class saturation issue in scenarios.
There is a much better solution to the problem you and everybody else has. It does not need any valuable time of devs to balance this problem.
1. Build a decent group of 2 tanks, 2 dps, 2 healers.
2. Join voice com and coordinate your abilities and roles.
3. Queue for scenario and have fun.

I don't understand why people make suggestions for something that is not broken. WAR has always been a team-based game. It means you have to be a group of six to maximize your success in scenarios. If you chose to play alone, or in a smaller group you minimize your odds. Btw this would help players who already made an effort to build a 2/2/2 group, so with 4 premade groups in scenarios, it would be a matter of skill/effort and not of luck.

Why are people so shy and lazy to communicate and coordinate with each other?

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Sulorie
Posts: 4906

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#29 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:03 am

Imagine your enemy has too many healers and you have good dps on your side. You will win, because you kill the enemy before the heal casts are finished with proper assist.
Dying is no option.

emiliorv
Posts: 508

Re: Healing & Immortality

Post#30 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:22 pm

oh...how its possible that 1 wannabe dps cant kill anyone without a proper assist...must be some kind of bug or something need to be nerfed ASAP!! gogo devs plz remake the game so i can kill someone...

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