Zxul wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:10 pm
Foofmonger wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:30 am
ekalime wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:52 pm
The things that I have read here have caused me to weep tears of blood... I still like to pretend End Times never happened given the absolutely horrid writing of what comes off as a destro-fan-boi fantasy.
I mean the end times was pretty bad but it did have some cool moments.
Chaos was always destined to win more or less, it was a matter of how long it could be contained. There's very little in warhammer fantasy lore about anyone actually going on the offensive to chaos pretty much at any point of time, it's not like the inevitable city was ever at any real danger or that chaos ever had any chance of being driven off of the warhammer fantasy world, outside of the Old Ones showing back up. One of the central parts of all warhammer lore (fantasy and 40k) is that chaos is inevitable, and that nobody actually has a plan to "defeat" them, it's all stalling tactics.
This is one of the fundamental aspects that gives these world the "grimdark" feeling, as in, no matter what you do, you cannot escape the inevitable grip of chaos taking over, and this threat looms over the setting as the main antagonistic backdrop.
Yep one thing I don't like about Warhammer/WH40k settings, none ever tries fun stuff like trying to off one of greater daemons, or even better Chaos gods, to steal their power. Just no mages with ambition, unlike some other settings.
+all the powers are pretty much "in your face", whatever new which pops is just another something which belongs to Chaos/necrons/tyranids/Old ones. Warhammer and especially WH40k would benefit a lot from having something like Lovecraftian Great Old Ones popping up to spice things a bit.
Yea, as good as the setting is, it's not flawless, and in 40k in particular there has a been a ton of stagnation and very slow movement in the overall narrative. Fantasy at least something happened, although that something was as we already spoke about, pretty dumb.
They could have done interesting stuff with Fantasy (theres Ind, Cathay, and basically all of that side of the world that they never really explored), and with 40k its space so the sky is the limit there, you can do whatever and have new xenos show up as needed.
The one thing I do really like about Chaos though, is that Chaos aren't aliens, they aren't "outsiders" and they aren't "others" they are the reflection of the emotions of sentient races. In fantasy, the chaos gods are molded and shaped by human emotions. If you read through the lore, the only reason humans have civilization in fantasy is because of the taint of chaos driving forward their progress. Without chaos in fantasy, there is no empire, no bretonnia, no nothing for humans, they would have just been random tribes of hunter/gatheres roaming around forests. In 40k, since the scale is wider and there are just more volume of xenos, it's less human centirc in nature, but the output of Chaos in 40k is still very human. It's humans who have become corrupted by Chaos, not Eldar, not Orks, etc...
It's a parable for our own darker nature within the real world. No matter what you do, you cannot escape the grips of fate, of pride, of lust, of hatred, of greed, etc... Nurgle is a twisted abomination, but he represents time and entropy, fundamental laws of our own real universe. They are human emotion taken to the most extreme variables and scope.