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Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

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M0rw47h
Posts: 634

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#11 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:30 am

Fanaticseb wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:17 am

So you are saying that this combo is even strong without the heal buff synergy, then it shouldnt be a hard hitting change
Youv'e to realize that Knight gives lots damage to BWs and Engineers just by being around.
WP and RP will still remain supreme to average AM who can't use EoV properly and in the end does really low healing.

It would hurt mostly, because it would be nerf to faction for most basic group compositions, as those are most core classes, while you would also buff opposite side at same time. Keep in mind, Order can't give as much CDR to AM for EoV, like Destro gives to Shaman to abuse Fury of Da Green without hurting group much (BO + Choppa).

emiliorv wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:18 am

Then average WP is top supreme over order healers (cause ED)?? how could be if ED is a overrated tactic (from destro pov ofc) and every order forum warrior says that is pretty useless...
Average DoK is supreme to other average destro healers even now. Giving him more healing, would make the gap even bigger. No?
Anathae [KotBS] / Anathea [WP] ( and couple others )
former Anathae [Zealot]

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emiliorv
Posts: 573

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#12 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:42 am

M0rw47h wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:30 am
emiliorv wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:18 am

Then average WP is top supreme over order healers (cause ED)?? how could be if ED is a overrated tactic (from destro pov ofc) and every order forum warrior says that is pretty useless...
Average DoK is supreme to other average destro healers even now.
Then average WP is super-mega-supreme over other order healers....now i start to understand the complains of archmages, probably no one want them having access to WPs...

Cant understand how 1 tactic can totally imbalance the whole healing clases of one faction...

Fanaticseb
Posts: 12

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#13 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:50 am

M0rw47h wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:30 am
Fanaticseb wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:17 am

So you are saying that this combo is even strong without the heal buff synergy, then it shouldnt be a hard hitting change
Youv'e to realize that Knight gives lots damage to BWs and Engineers just by being around.
WP and RP will still remain supreme to average AM who can't use EoV properly and in the end does really low healing.

It would hurt mostly, because it would be nerf to faction for most basic group compositions, as those are most core classes, while you would also buff opposite side at same time. Keep in mind, Order can't give as much CDR to AM for EoV, like Destro gives to Shaman to abuse Fury of Da Green without hurting group much (BO + Choppa).

emiliorv wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:18 am

Then average WP is top supreme over order healers (cause ED)?? how could be if ED is a overrated tactic (from destro pov ofc) and every order forum warrior says that is pretty useless...
Average DoK is supreme to other average destro healers even now. Giving him more healing, would make the gap even bigger. No?
My intention was that u can choose one suggestion.

But don't u see that these tactics let only a small grp of classes change the effectiveness of a healdebuff, while it is static for other classes.

From the pont of view of a WP: if u have Exalted Defenses active, have 2 Kotbs in grp with the tactic and a runepriest having his tactic permanently on the grp, then u have 175% healing output on the whole grp. When a 50% heal debuff is applied to a party member then the healing output goes down to 87,5% on the target. This is a really big advantage imo.

TreefAM
Posts: 441

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#14 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:56 am

You do realize it's an aura the knight has to use, so having two knights in a party means nothing since auras don't stack?

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M0rw47h
Posts: 634

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#15 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:57 am

Fanaticseb wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:50 am
My intention was that u can choose one suggestion.

But don't u see that these tactics let only a small grp of classes change the effectiveness of a healdebuff, while it is static for other classes.

From the pont of view of a WP: if u have Exalted Defenses active, have 2 Kotbs in grp with the tactic and a runepriest having his tactic permanently on the grp, then u have 175% healing output on the whole grp. When a 50% heal debuff is applied to a party member then the healing output goes down to 87,5% on the target. This is a really big advantage imo.
I'd suggest you doing some tests. To begin with, Auras on Knight doesn't stack.
emiliorv wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:42 am
Then average WP is super-mega-supreme over other order healers....now i start to understand the complains of archmages, probably no one want them having access to WPs...

Cant understand how 1 tactic can totally imbalance the whole healing clases of one faction...
Nobody wants Archmages, because majority of Archmages can't even play their class, same with Shamans. However, its easier to use Shamans as you got more CDR on Destro.
Anathae [KotBS] / Anathea [WP] ( and couple others )
former Anathae [Zealot]

emiliorv
Posts: 573

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#16 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:08 am

M0rw47h wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:57 am
Spoiler:
Fanaticseb wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:50 am
My intention was that u can choose one suggestion.

But don't u see that these tactics let only a small grp of classes change the effectiveness of a healdebuff, while it is static for other classes.

From the pont of view of a WP: if u have Exalted Defenses active, have 2 Kotbs in grp with the tactic and a runepriest having his tactic permanently on the grp, then u have 175% healing output on the whole grp. When a 50% heal debuff is applied to a party member then the healing output goes down to 87,5% on the target. This is a really big advantage imo.
I'd suggest you doing some tests. To begin with, Auras on Knight doesn't stack.
emiliorv wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:42 am
Then average WP is super-mega-supreme over other order healers....now i start to understand the complains of archmages, probably no one want them having access to WPs...

Cant understand how 1 tactic can totally imbalance the whole healing clases of one faction...
Nobody wants Archmages, because majority of Archmages can't even play their class, same with Shamans. However, its easier to use Shamans as you got more CDR on Destro.
Is easier to use shamans because the difference between DoK and zealot/shaman is smaller than WP and RP/AM...
when destro complain about ED order try to underrate the tactic (you included viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836&p=428248#p428248)
if someone suggested to mirror ED on DoK then suddenly its a OP tactic that will make DoK a super-OP-Healer...

Fanaticseb
Posts: 12

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#17 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:09 am

TreefAM wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:56 am
You do realize it's an aura the knight has to use, so having two knights in a party means nothing since auras don't stack?
I was relying on info from twitch chat in this VOD: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/744403794?t=05h26m10s

Perhaps i'm wrong with that. I don't have the means to test it atm, so i will not bring it up again with 2 knights stacking

nuadarstark
Posts: 172

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#18 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:10 am

I'll be more than happy to drop my wounds buff and ED to make every single healer mirror an EXACT mirror :) Hell, add chosen & knights to that too, why not. I'm sure knights would love to dish out spirit dmg.

ED is awesome, it's literally so good I'm gonna stand in that pink Sorc **** every time, but it's not like the other side doesn't have any comparable utility. I for once would really like a non-Syphon/Focus Mind morale that actually does something, some more cc and more debuff utility...
Crazy Salvation WP Guernios - rr82, full Sov
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TreefAM
Posts: 441

Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#19 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:18 am

Ah yes make knights a useless dps tank, would be cool if they made runefang work like it did before, but no matter the dmg, 2h knights are still better than 2h chosen since they actually provide something outside of lol dmg when they bring their big stick.

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Mordecaieth
Posts: 91
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Re: Incoming healbuffs shouldnt stack, because healdebuffs also dont stack

Post#20 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:17 pm

Diminishing returns- probably never. Would be much easier than reworking/mirroring healers... Then again I'm no coder so I probably shouldn't run my fingers.

EDIT: sad to see a legitimate post with thought and some number crunching put into it devolve into a, "oh yeah, you have problems? Well so do we!"

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