Change dok heal debuff into ability.

[Zxul]

As per thread here- viewtopic.php?f=73&t=41354

Originally, dok heal debuff tactic was better than wp heal debuff ability, since ability was only debuffing healing by 25%, and since tactic could be applied with aoe. With this no longer being the case, dok heal debuff tactic is actually worse than wp heal debuff, from the following reasons:

1. Wp heal debuff can be applied on demand, meaning that it is trivial for even solo wp to cover it with 2 debuffs making it impossible foe a single healer to remove it, while there is no guarantee when dok heal debuff will go off, specially vs end gear target with high -% to be crit.
2. Per 1- with bad rng, dok might not even apply it at all- while wp heal debuff is a guaranteed 100% uptime.
3. Dok tactic costs tactic slot- wp heal debuff is free.
4. DoK heal debuff is an 11 point ability, limiting it to a single build. Wp heal debuff is only a 5 point ability, meaning wp can get heal debuff in any spec, even as main heal tree.
5. DoK needs to get a very high amount of melee crit to make the tactic work. Wp doesn't needs any specific stat to make the heal debuff work and have a 100% uptime.

All in all, in all situations except solo attacking target with high parry %, wp heal debuff is superior in all aspects to dok heal debuff tactic. As such, the suggestion is to change the dok heal debuff into ability, and to put it lower on tree than current 11 points.

[ceramicartist]

2. WP heal debuff is not a guaranteed 100% uptime.
3. WP heal debuff costs a GCD and resources.
4. You won't see a salv WP with heal debuff. But you will see a grace or wrath WP with it.

[Gareul]

the HDs are fine as they are on both DoK and WP it was done to make all none morale HDs ST i think, just roll back the nerf to DoKs AoE cant remember the name wich was unfair nerf to DoK, and no don't change the mirrors they are fine giving ability's cross faction just takes awhile the unique playstyles of each class mirror.

[agemennon675]

Thats a nerf to DPS DoK, good suggestion

[Zxul]

2. WP heal debuff is not a guaranteed 100% uptime.
3. WP heal debuff costs a GCD and resources.
4. You won't see a salv WP with heal debuff. But you will see a grace or wrath WP with it.

1. WP heal debuff is 10 sec duration, and 10 sec CD. Apply from back vs toons with parry for a guaranteed 100% uptime.
2. WP heal debuff does a decent dmg, and also builds resources (25 RF). Dok heal debuff does nothing except heal debuff, while also costing a tactic slot.
3. For salvation choice is between wounds buff and heal debuff. For rvr wounds buff is better, for sc/small scale (which is where dok will use the heal debuff as well) its a choice between wounds buff which can be shattered, and extra/only heal debuff.

[Dueil]

4. You won't see a salv WP with heal debuff. But you will see a grace or wrath WP with it.

I guess that's the main thing for me, shield WP can easily spec into healdebuff while shield DoK can't without giving up a lot (and doesn't really have the crit to make good use of it either)

[emiliorv]

4. You won't see a salv WP with heal debuff. But you will see a grace or wrath WP with it.

I guess that's the main thing for me, shield WP can easily spec into healdebuff while shield DoK can't without giving up a lot (and doesn't really have the crit to make good use of it either)

To get HD with a shield dok means to sacrifice 12 skill points + 1 tactic slot => too much cost for a HD proc...if at least drowning in blood could be used in shield spec, maybe worth the points wasted...

Any Salvation WPs spec in HD because that means lose the grp wounds buff => salv WPs have too much good things to spec for...

[ceramicartist]

1. WP heal debuff is 10 sec duration, and 10 sec CD. Apply from back vs toons with parry for a guaranteed 100% uptime.
2. WP heal debuff does a decent dmg, and also builds resources (25 RF). Dok heal debuff does nothing except heal debuff, while also costing a tactic slot.
3. For salvation choice is between wounds buff and heal debuff. For rvr wounds buff is better, for sc/small scale (which is where dok will use the heal debuff as well) its a choice between wounds buff which can be shattered, and extra/only heal debuff.

1. This is what you call "looks good on paper". You cannot guarantee 100% back hits, you cannot guarantee to get through 100% defenses, you cannot guarantee that the debuff will never get pulled off. You cannot guarantee 100% uptime.
2. No one said WP heal debuff doesn't do damage or that it doesn't build resources. I called you out on your wrong assessment that WP heal debuff is "free".
3. Just because you have enough points to pick heal debuff does not mean it's viable in every spec. You won't see a Salv WP waste their time with heal debuff.

Just stick to the facts instead of up-playing DoKs mirror.

[Zxul]

1. WP heal debuff is 10 sec duration, and 10 sec CD. Apply from back vs toons with parry for a guaranteed 100% uptime.
2. WP heal debuff does a decent dmg, and also builds resources (25 RF). Dok heal debuff does nothing except heal debuff, while also costing a tactic slot.
3. For salvation choice is between wounds buff and heal debuff. For rvr wounds buff is better, for sc/small scale (which is where dok will use the heal debuff as well) its a choice between wounds buff which can be shattered, and extra/only heal debuff.

1. This is what you call "looks good on paper". You cannot guarantee 100% back hits, you cannot guarantee to get through 100% defenses, you cannot guarantee that the debuff will never get pulled off. You cannot guarantee 100% uptime.
2. No one said WP heal debuff doesn't do damage or that it doesn't build resources. I called you out on your wrong assessment that WP heal debuff is "free".
3. Just because you have enough points to pick heal debuff does not mean it's viable in every spec. You won't see a Salv WP waste their time with heal debuff.

Just stick to the facts instead of up-playing DoKs mirror.

1. You cannon guarantee that Earth won't be hit by an asteroid in the next 60 min. You also cannot guarantee that dok debuff will even go off, since no dok has a 100% crit chance. From other hand, you can guarantee that if you do apply wp debuff from the back, it will not get parried. You can also guarantee that if you cover it by two debuffs, a single healer won't be able to cleanse it, unless zealot specifically slotted no cd cleanse tactic (which will cost him other things, not to mention gcds).
2. Quoting you again- "WP heal debuff costs a GCD and resources.". My reply again- "WP heal debuff does a decent dmg, and also builds resources (25 RF)." Learn to read, its good for you.
3. And again, since you had trouble reading it the last time- for salv wp choice is between a wounds buff which can be shuttered, and a heal debuff. For rvr wounds buff is better, for small scale not necessarily.

Just stick to the facts of the game, however since by your posts it is pretty clear that you have no idea about those, you can start here.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/

You can select any class out of those that exists in game, and see which abilities do they have, and what do they do/costs. Try it, education is good.

[ceramicartist]

1. WP heal debuff is 10 sec duration, and 10 sec CD. Apply from back vs toons with parry for a guaranteed 100% uptime.
2. WP heal debuff does a decent dmg, and also builds resources (25 RF). Dok heal debuff does nothing except heal debuff, while also costing a tactic slot.
3. For salvation choice is between wounds buff and heal debuff. For rvr wounds buff is better, for sc/small scale (which is where dok will use the heal debuff as well) its a choice between wounds buff which can be shattered, and extra/only heal debuff.

1. This is what you call "looks good on paper". You cannot guarantee 100% back hits, you cannot guarantee to get through 100% defenses, you cannot guarantee that the debuff will never get pulled off. You cannot guarantee 100% uptime.
2. No one said WP heal debuff doesn't do damage or that it doesn't build resources. I called you out on your wrong assessment that WP heal debuff is "free".
3. Just because you have enough points to pick heal debuff does not mean it's viable in every spec. You won't see a Salv WP waste their time with heal debuff.

Just stick to the facts instead of up-playing DoKs mirror.

1. You cannon guarantee that Earth won't be hit by an asteroid in the next 60 min. You also cannot guarantee that dok debuff will even go off, since no dok has a 100% crit chance. From other hand, you can guarantee that if you do apply wp debuff from the back, it will not get parried. You can also guarantee that if you cover it by two debuffs, a single healer won't be able to cleanse it, unless zealot specifically slotted no cd cleanse tactic (which will cost him other things, not to mention gcds).
2. Quoting you again- "WP heal debuff costs a GCD and resources.". My reply again- "WP heal debuff does a decent dmg, and also builds resources (25 RF)." Learn to read, its good for you.
3. And again, since you had trouble reading it the last time- for salv wp choice is between a wounds buff which can be shuttered, and a heal debuff. For rvr wounds buff is better, for small scale not necessarily.

Just stick to the facts of the game, however since by your posts it is pretty clear that you have no idea about those, you can start here.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/

You can select any class out of those that exists in game, and see which abilities do they have, and what do they do/costs. Try it, education is good.

Now you're just going off topic and acting like a fool.