Then lets see what we have here.
Ok you clearly don't know how absorbs work, if you want details just pm me. Told Ya SO is not mendatory. There othere classes that can provide AP (like Kotbs, Rune and WP), if they are in party you can skip on Told Ya So. The "useless parry tactic" is extremely strong and you not suing it it is prolly the reason why you are complaining about grudge starvation (notice that you are the only one complaining about it...). Even punishing knock isn't mendatory. again it depends on your party comp, there are planty of healdebuff in the gameParallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmincorrect as runic shield with 11 points into the tree absorbs 895. which ill be usually 1 spell cast to remove it. so its a netlose of grudge 90% of the time. you also cannot slot the useless parry for grudge tactics because the class is already so far behind other tanks you need punishing knock and told ya so 100% leaving on 2 tactic slots which are already accounted for.
That's true, but you take Cave In specifically bacuse it is on-demand. If you put Shield Of Reprisal on-demand no one would take Cave In. 2h IB is already extremely strong, there's no need to touch left treeParallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmthe on demand knock down also REQUIRES A GREAT WEAPON the other knock down REQUIRES A SHIELD. so the only on demand CC the entire class has is using a 2h and talented. but yes the left tree could 100% use a rework. so no IB could have 2 on demand knockdowns. so your point is kinda irrelevant there.
Why you can't stack WS? Stacking WS you gain nice ST damage, just forget about AoE. Keep up your bonuses and everything will work fine. Not all the tank are the same, some deal AoE damage, some don't. That's it. Again, slot Dwarven Riposte and you will have your gradge sky high all the timeParallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmyou cant stack WP as a SnB IB. SnB SMs do currently over 3x the dps to the new dummies compared to SnB IBs. hell a 2h IB with a *realistic* rotation keeping buffs up etc does less dps to new dummies than a SnB SM. also you will never be full of grudge using shield sweep on CD. 10sec CD with a 10 grudge cost with a max of 50 gain, so 40 gain overall. 1 runic shield is 30 grudge. 1 application of parry/crit which is on a 10 second duration is 15 each so 30 total grudge. you will only be 10 grudge gain AT BEST if you arent using ANY other buffs. also IBs grudge gain LOWERS the more you have, so even if you are building up grudge nicely once you start spending and gaining constantly its not a smooth cycle like a blackguards. a blackguard can easily play full hate if it wants, an IB can never play at full grudge. BG skills also require 30/60/90 hate to be full effectiveness while IBs are 25/50/75/100....that 100 grudge buff is basically nonexistant.
Again talking about grudge starvation . Anyway, IB punt seems just fine to me. Maybe I'm the wizard of the punt and I don't know itParallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmIB punt is not one of the best punts in the game by any means. costs grudge which we are already starving for if buffing effectively, it has similar range than some of tanks punts (65ft) but the target doesnt get much height, hell even a untacticed kotbs/chosen punt is 45?ft i believe and then tacticed its super high punt which takes someone out the fight for atleast a good 5 seconds due to the airtime, so unless you're fighting on a perfectly flat area or next to a cliff (which any punt will work then) 70% of the time it gets cucked by terrain as it doesnt have the verticality or golf swing mega punt values like blackguard. if its verticality got upped by maybe 10-15% it would be fine imo.
You want the IB cuz it can kite like a bastard, deal good damage, bring lot of utility (various buff, AP battery, AoE snare, healdebuff) and it's hard as rock. If you buff everything with your skill you don't have to use the "standard" potions wich let you open to more creative solution. With liniment you can get either: melee power, melee crit, ws, anti armor-pen or healing power (and I may be forgetting something). To me this is an asset, also considerimg that the same reasoning goes for your main Oath Friend. Kotbs aura doesn't satck with any kind of buff/debuff (for example slayer's thoughness debuff doesn't stack with kotbs aura)Parallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmim fine with parry buff/bubble/crit buff not being AoE but the basekite buffs are pathetically weak in comparison to everything else currently, most of them you could essentially remove from your buffing rotation and nothing would be any different, str buff is marginally better than a pot/RP buff, armor buff is 200-300 better than armor pot, toughness buff is WAY worse than kotbs/chosen buff/debuff aura, which im also believe stack with other toughness debuffs/stat steals. the only real reason you would take an IB over any tank ingame is to buff a slayer parry/crit OR be a complete AP battery.
Again, you do ST damage. Thorne potion help you with AoE damage. I agree that WP/healing power scaling isn't much good, but still better than nothing.Parallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pminspiring attack is going to be in the 150-200 willpower region most of the time which is basically nullvoid resistance to spellcaster disrupt as they dont have high enough base willpower for that disrupt to outweigh the int the casters have meaning they basically have 0 disrupt anyways unless through RR points. willpower healing scaling is also so **** bad in game the difference it makes to grumble and mutter is at a full 300-400 willpower buff maybe an extra 20healing per tick....its honestly so little i dont even notice it. thorns pots *arent* a lot of damage but when a thorns pots is probably 1/3 of a classes damage due to how **** little it does because lack of any form of scaling i would say thats a pretty big class issue. also i have tested the healing power liniment with GnM, the +50 healing power made a huge difference of 4 extra healing per tick and the fact you even suggest using a healing power lini on a IB really downplays your arguement.
Ever heard of Oathmeal? He does a shitton of damage. Anyway, I can't argue about Kotbs/Chosen, I have neither (and I suppose you too). As far as I know both Kotbs and Chosen deal shitty damage and I'm used to let them behinde in damage with both my IB and BG.Parallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmSnB kotbs actually does *MORE* damage than SnB IB currently with the new elemental damage changes they got a few weeks ago, SnB chosen 100% do more damage than SnB IB without even a question due to the offensive nature of that tank and spirit damage. so that arguement is out of the window. if you think BOs are doing the same kinda tier of damage as IB/BG you must be playing with some extremely scuffed BOs, BO is so far and beyond other tanks atm its not even a question. ive seen khazrogg do top damage done in cities with a 2h black orc...AGAIN IBs cannot stack weapon skill as SnB and even as 2h IB usually has to stack alot of strength with WS mixed in when possible though i do believe the usual is stacking strength and melee power and just going for crit due to how GBF works among other things.
Ok, again you seem to not know much about this game. Also I've ever said that all the tanks have armor debuff. BO has armor debuff too. Also, can you tell which classes have AoE snare? A worthy one I mean, not like Slayer's one.Parallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmthe armor debuff isnt standard for every tank for one, only BG/IB has it and its less than armor pot value in armor shred unless you debuff at 100 grudge which never happens, and if you go left tree as SnB IB you dont have the basic tools you need to play SnB due to it being so far behind other tanks you needing to be a AP battery in organised content. even if you gave up some talents like GnM you would ONLY get an extra 2 points to spend in that tree after you got the other manditory things you need to even be invited to organised content in the first place. the AoE snare is nice, but other classes can do it in a cone effect at a longer range for the same tier of slow, so its effectiveness is greatly reduced cos of that. punishing knock is super good yes, its basically 1 of 4 things you take IB for, other being AP battery, crit buff, parry buff. and you talk down to people alot for someone who doesnt even play the class or faction and doesnt understand the basic concepts of what is wrong with the class despite all these other IB players disagreeing with you in this thread. wonder why that is...and yes my IBs name is Belegarrn in the guild reforged, before you whine some more you wont be able to find me in the armory for some reason and i dont know why...i cant even look myself up there.
This is just pointless blathering. Don't really get the point, aside from being rude, I mean. Also notice that Earthcake agree with me since he says that SnB IB has the better damage of all tank. Since this is your thread, I would also like to point out that he doesn't support any of your change wich lead to what I'm saying since 2 day: your proposals are bad.Parallels66 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:35 pmthis statement right here basically nullvoids your entire arguement, you're argueing about a class you do not play or know anything about it seems, despite other people who actively play IB at a higher level who have posted here, including earthcake above who is pretty well know and extremely good at IB disagreeing with you. IB is a defensive tank with less defensive purpose than the offensive tanks currently. THATS THE ISSUE. all the *defensive* qualities IB brings is replaced at a higher quality by other classes bar 2 buffs and 1 healing debuff OR basic consumables while the other classes having higher utility,higher damage, better group focus and support. why do you think EVERY IB in organised content is just turned into a guard and oathfriend the slayer AP/parry/crit battery bot. because IB doesnt fill any role or do anything better than any other tank except for the *1* specific class. IB is currently the most underperforming tank in game currently without a question or doubt. but ill stop feeding the troll who clearly doesnt play the class or understand the basics of its mechanics and the fundamental issues with it.
To conclude: Earthcake is a really good IB that I rember fighting many time (on contray of you, which I've never heard of) and while I agree he is very experienced he is also forgetting something: BO deals more damage than IB if properly specced, but then it is also squishy as **** ad with zero utility (no AoE snare unless Big Brawlin', no healdebuff, no parry/crit buff and so on) and zero mobility since BO is the tank with less mobility in the game.
P.S. stop with this "you don't know **** about IB and you don't know how to play it", you never seen me play it and you don't know what skill/build I use. If you want to argue use proper tool, like logical reasoning and hard proof.