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[Sorc] Suggestions

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Sponn
Posts: 128

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#101 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:12 pm

I think you should have to be rr80 on a class before you can suggest changes to it lol.

Since we are sharing opinions.

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Atropik
Posts: 592

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#102 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:49 pm

teiloh wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:07 pm
Even my Magus' Pandemonium can get the occasional 400-600 crit, I'd be surprised if GON hits for much less. Most of those nerfs affect BWs as well and this thread is a comparison.
Regular crit was around 250-350 last time i tried, it can go for more if you top the Calamity mastery(and you dont want to do so in aoe), i suppose, but not that much. Its a rare thing to see, you know, everytime i see it on myself - i go strait to wc guards/keep lord so npc could make some love with newbie sorc xd
Nicelook | Obey

Sofong
Posts: 245

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#103 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:05 pm

let see bw: self clean, instant snare, range kd, better aoe, 1k armor, sorc have??? 5-10% st dmg? i would gladly trade dmg for survivabilty, and that extra dmg can also cover by funnel power.

emiliorv
Posts: 846

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#104 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:15 pm

Sofong wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:05 pm
let see bw: self clean, instant snare, range kd, better aoe, 1k armor
You forgetting ranged heal debuff (and flashfire)
teiloh wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:52 pm
Rampage is overrated, RUN AWAY! was hands down the best tactic in the game.

Zilas
Posts: 7

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#105 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:20 pm

in addition there are the permanent order classes buffs (whether big or small changes, whether primary or passive), which do not make things any easier for the sorc. This has not been mentioned here yet

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wonshot
Posts: 720

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#106 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:38 am

Bozzax wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:08 pm
Long post
At this point we just have different views on the class, and possibly the bracket of choice.
I view solo roaming to be a mostly a consumeable war, with a mix of strong class mechanic, getting the jump and either a strong burst or sustatainability. The game is very from from balanced around this playstyle, so some classes/builds will thrive. others will take this challenge on by "cheesing" it with consumeables to make up for class weakness'. but that is just my view on solo roaming, dueling is a bit different but still much of the same.

Clensing winds is not here, so ill not touch on that. Just like Resulute defence changed the kite-game for ranged classes from Live to here.

My mindset has simply just changed over the years on AoR. A year back I was upset and angry with dev comments about "not every class needs to have a warband viable aoe spec" Now we see the city meta and gameplay with plenty of stealher play apart from forts. Following the same dev mindset, i have just began to accep that if singletarget sorc is just a pugstomping monster but not too desired in 6v6 or 1v1 then so be it. Same for Brightwizard can be good in leeching of others work by standing in the back doing rain of fire, sure it can chunck puggies and add to critical mass but if you think you are doing the lord's work by standing there doing a channel leeching of others keeping the enemy at bay you are you fooling yourself.

As long as the classmechanic on these two mages remain the same, the careers are just simply too dangerous to upset the balance. or just might go from having a pugkilling monster to having a solo-premade stomper, and if there is one thing people hate then it is dieing to someone "oneshotting you while you cant reach them"

When Slowboil is eventually fixed (pending fix on github) then BW might overtake sorc in singeltarget timestamping, and i would guess that is the reason it hasnt been fixed since feb because order is getting alot of momentum as of last few months and this would simply add to the "order bias" crowd on RoR. But that is just my speculation.

Pugstomping sorc is fine imho. For 6v6 both bw/sorc could use a little love, and for aoe sorc could use a little up while BW could use a little tactic nerf on either wide RoF or maybe longer CD flashfire.
INACTIVE
Bombling BW RR 90 [Line by Line] On break atm. Moving house
Alts:Meatbomb SH[invader/royal] Powerhouse Zealot [vanq] Chopling Choppa[invader] Notbombling Sorc [sub40]
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teiloh
Posts: 572

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#107 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:16 am

Sofong wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:05 pm
let see bw: self clean, instant snare, range kd, better aoe, 1k armor, sorc have??? 5-10% st dmg? i would gladly trade dmg for survivabilty, and that extra dmg can also cover by funnel power.
Casted range snare, disarm, self stacking debuff for main damage type, access to ranged AOE spammable max value debuff on ranged damage type, various utility functions like tapping the dark/infernal gift, ice spikes which is superior to nerfed detonate, infernal wave, GON, WWS, and I'd still argue AV *if* you choose to take it, is like a strong HoT on yourself at least.

The BW advantages you listed are of course significant.
-- In the grim darkness of Warhammer Online, there is only Destrukaren asking for Rampage nerf.

Elvicof
Posts: 55

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#108 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:43 am

teiloh wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:16 am
Sofong wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:05 pm
let see bw: self clean, instant snare, range kd, better aoe, 1k armor, sorc have??? 5-10% st dmg? i would gladly trade dmg for survivabilty, and that extra dmg can also cover by funnel power.
Casted range snare, disarm, self stacking debuff for main damage type, access to ranged AOE spammable max value debuff on ranged damage type, various utility functions like tapping the dark/infernal gift, ice spikes which is superior to nerfed detonate, infernal wave, GON, WWS, and I'd still argue AV *if* you choose to take it, is like a strong HoT on yourself at least.

The BW advantages you listed are of course significant.
Dont think there are many running Internal gift since you dont buff yourselves and in a 2-2-2 setup you effectively only buffing 1 dps-class. So there are far better options for that tact-slot.

I just fell that to many of the sorcs specced abilities are lacking.

Agony Tree: SoD, RE tact are just awful and EoP just feels kinda underpowered when you think of flashfire.
Calamity: GoN doesnt make senes in this tree (move it to AoE tree instead of BH), rest of the tree is ok.
Destruction: BH is utterly crap and SK is most picked up because you are specced into AoE and need an instant thing more.
All M4's are really not worth waiting.

Both classes have some strengths and weaknesses, but for me he choices of builds and spell options are just better for BW.
Moonlapse and VII

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teiloh
Posts: 572

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#109 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:38 am

Agree that SOD sucks hard from when Mythic nerfed it a long long time ago.

Crippling Terror and Paralyzing Nightmares (assuming the root still doesn't break) are actually really good. Destro complained a lot about the Knight version but Sorc can build M4 much faster than Knight can build M3, and it lasts longer and does more damage too. Soul Stealer should at least heal the Sorc multiple times if it doesn't. Wall of Fire and Conflagration of Doom are mediocre at best but Burning Head is great. The Squig has Destro's equivalent though.
-- In the grim darkness of Warhammer Online, there is only Destrukaren asking for Rampage nerf.

Caduceus
Posts: 150

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#110 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:19 am

teiloh wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:38 am

Crippling Terror and Paralyzing Nightmares (assuming the root still doesn't break) are actually really good.
I disagree.

Paralyzing Nightmares is OK, though the fact it has a 30ft range greatly reduces its usefulness in large scale fights. This is somewhat paradoxical, since the reason one chooses the Path of Destruction is exactly for large scale fights. Perhaps there is something to be said for its usefulness in highly organized (bomb?) warbands, though even then one would be hard-pressed to prove an advantage over simply using Shatter or Wind-Woven Shell.

Crippling Terror sounds great on paper, but the fact that it only has 20ft radius, is limited to 9 targets and is affected by immunities means it is very difficult to get much value out of it.

Both barely constitute an upgrade from the default 'Unleash the Winds'.
Furthermore, since the Sorcerer's AoE abilities and tactics are spread out over multiple paths, I'd say the points spent to get one of the M4's are better spent elsewhere.

M4's is an area where I believe Sorc is greatly handicapped. As a result of an earlier discussion in this thread I created a seperate thread about this a few weeks back. Sadly, there wasn't much response.

I've experimented with all of them (including Soul Stealer) and spoken to other experienced Sorcs about their thoughts. The conclusion was that it is rarely, if ever, worth waiting for M4's to build, let alone put career points into special ones which are a meagre upgrade if an upgrade at all.

I've played different classes at rr70+ across all archetypes, and I can say that Sorc is the only class I've played where blasting an M4 doesn't feel worth it. This seems odd to me.

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