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SH proposal

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Lithenir
Posts: 262

Re: SH proposal

Post#51 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:37 am

After playing two evenings from a WLs perspective I think the rSH damage output is now higher than before but they are easier to catch, feels a bit more balanced then before imo.

I also can understand every rSH proposing the 100ft range back to QS because it must have been nice in that safer spot.

To support more different playstyles maybe bring back the "old" SWDW tactic with range increase but also with a loss in damage output by 5% or 10% (needs to be figured out). This makes logical sense since the arrow hits weaker the longer it travels. Anyways, the actual SWDW could be renamed and moved somewhere else in the tree.
This way the rSH can switch between the closer more risky but more damage playstyle or the safer playstyle without being overpowered.

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Jurki
Posts: 31

Re: SH proposal

Post#52 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:06 pm

Lithenir wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:37 am
After playing two evenings from a WLs perspective I think the rSH damage output is now higher than before but they are easier to catch, feels a bit more balanced then before imo.

I also can understand every rSH proposing the 100ft range back to QS because it must have been nice in that safer spot.

To support more different playstyles maybe bring back the "old" SWDW tactic with range increase but also with a loss in damage output by 5% or 10% (needs to be figured out). This makes logical sense since the arrow hits weaker the longer it travels. Anyways, the actual SWDW could be renamed and moved somewhere else in the tree.
This way the rSH can switch between the closer more risky but more damage playstyle or the safer playstyle without being overpowered.
-the increased dmg output is obvious

-you misunderstood that it was a "safer spot". You were never safe as a SH. The game is full with mechanics helping to close the gap. You shouldnt have any trouble as a WL to catch up with a SH otherwise the long history of SH complaining about WL wouldnt exist. The range of 100ft is absolutely necessary for the class to operate since you cant be allowed to be constantly in the danger zone and that is 65ft-75ft and below because there are numerous possibilities enemies can catch up to you even on 100ft - on a lower range you dont have time to react and youre too easy to pick out of the fight - that is completely oppositve of the very nature that class has of being mobile (that means operating and not just running around doing nothing) and fast. Distance is the main tool to stay alive as a SH. 100ft is not "long range". That range an engi or magus is sniping their 2k+ crits is long range.

-pls dont point out realistic aspects when talking about balance: demons are not quite realistic (some might say i am wrong about that) or that you can get healed by inhaling the smell of alcohol coming from a keg (some might disagree as well on that). Also I might question, based on realism, that a projectile might fly a longer range than a magic spell, although my time in hogwarts was quite limited.

-SWDW: i wont give back the old effect: one issue with SH was that it wasnt viable without certain tactics, narrowing the playstile possibilities. We still have the problem that 2 tactics are effectively locked to just reach a certain attribute level you need (that might be something that needs more time to change in the future - it affects other classes as well). You would have basically one tactic slot open for different tactics and even that Run Away was the most common choice. The main idea was to change SWDW AND to increase the base range of QS to 100ft to open up to a wider spectrum of tactics. A change of SWDW of giving armor pen (as i think would be great) or to increase crit (as the developers did) increases the dmg output slightly which the class needed to compete in the greater picture of rvr combat (SH wasnt really viable in 6v6 for example). A reduced dmg as you might think would be good, would reverse these slight tweaks and still leaving the sh in a state where he needs adjustments.
Last edited by Jurki on Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Korhill
Posts: 111

Re: SH proposal

Post#53 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:08 pm

There is no rsh only anymore. Since rsh can/should use the new Squig Armor and the many core skills that tree has they should not be afraid anymore if they get caught at 65ft. Even without spending points in path of pouncing they have a lot of skills in Squig Armor
That makes balancing on rsh now even harder. I don't want a mobile kite class with 100ft and all the utilities that can be tougher with Squig Armor than a mdps (beside monstro Mar) if you manage to get them.

Jurki
Posts: 31

Re: SH proposal

Post#54 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:32 pm

Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:08 pm
There is no rsh only anymore. Since rsh can/should use the new Squig Armor and the many core skills that tree has they should not be afraid anymore if they get caught at 65ft. Even without spending points in path of pouncing they have a lot of skills in Squig Armor
That makes balancing on rsh now even harder. I don't want a mobile kite class with 100ft and all the utilities that can be tougher with Squig Armor than a mdps (beside monstro Mar) if you manage to get them.
Disagree - the Squig Armor is only viable on QS skilled to prolong the fight when you get caught by melees for example to get an armor boost maybe to knock one down and kick them back - to get them back on distance - although youre already snared by the time. Without stuff like cleansing wind - even with potions its never enough to effectively survive and kill the opponents but only to win some time for your healers or tanks to save you. The temporary boost in the defensive stats isnt a significant change in the received dmg. Additionally it doesnt matter when you get knocked down and bursted away in less than 2 secs because your def stats are otherwise as effective as paper - which is a huge difference to like a WL where you can have decent survivability and a really strong dmg burst. But Im not here to discuss WL vs. SH situations.

Korhill
Posts: 111

Re: SH proposal

Post#55 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:10 pm

Jurki wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:32 pm
Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:08 pm
There is no rsh only anymore. Since rsh can/should use the new Squig Armor and the many core skills that tree has they should not be afraid anymore if they get caught at 65ft. Even without spending points in path of pouncing they have a lot of skills in Squig Armor
That makes balancing on rsh now even harder. I don't want a mobile kite class with 100ft and all the utilities that can be tougher with Squig Armor than a mdps (beside monstro Mar) if you manage to get them.
Disagree - the Squig Armor is only viable on QS skilled to prolong the fight when you get caught by melees for example to get an armor boost maybe to knock one down and kick them back - to get them back on distance - although youre already snared by the time. Without stuff like cleansing wind - even with potions its never enough to effectively survive and kill the opponents but only to win some time for your healers or tanks to save you. The temporary boost in the defensive stats isnt a significant change in the received dmg. Additionally it doesnt matter when you get knocked down and bursted away in less than 2 secs because your def stats are otherwise as effective as paper - which is a huge difference to like a WL where you can have decent survivability and a really strong dmg burst. But Im not here to discuss WL vs. SH situations.
I don't agree. A MSH can have very good survivability and good Burst. He has better escape tools than a WL. But I also don't want to discuss this in your topic about rsh.

You are probably the best rsh out here and it seems you are not a fan of the MSH aka meatball.
But it exists. For me it seems devs want to force SHs to play them hybrid. Either you start with range and than finish them of as a MSH. Or start with your MSH burst rotation and than finish him of with range. Or you just stay as MSH.
The SH is now a very strong class if not the best one atm. They are at there peak now.

Korhill
Posts: 111

Re: SH proposal

Post#56 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:10 pm

Jurki wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:32 pm
Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:08 pm
There is no rsh only anymore. Since rsh can/should use the new Squig Armor and the many core skills that tree has they should not be afraid anymore if they get caught at 65ft. Even without spending points in path of pouncing they have a lot of skills in Squig Armor
That makes balancing on rsh now even harder. I don't want a mobile kite class with 100ft and all the utilities that can be tougher with Squig Armor than a mdps (beside monstro Mar) if you manage to get them.
Disagree - the Squig Armor is only viable on QS skilled to prolong the fight when you get caught by melees for example to get an armor boost maybe to knock one down and kick them back - to get them back on distance - although youre already snared by the time. Without stuff like cleansing wind - even with potions its never enough to effectively survive and kill the opponents but only to win some time for your healers or tanks to save you. The temporary boost in the defensive stats isnt a significant change in the received dmg. Additionally it doesnt matter when you get knocked down and bursted away in less than 2 secs because your def stats are otherwise as effective as paper - which is a huge difference to like a WL where you can have decent survivability and a really strong dmg burst. But Im not here to discuss WL vs. SH situations.
I don't agree. A MSH can have very good survivability and good Burst. He has better escape tools than a WL. But I also don't want to discuss this in your topic about rsh.

You are probably the best rsh out here and it seems you are not a fan of the MSH aka meatball.
But it exists. For me it seems devs want to force SHs to play them hybrid. Either you start with range and than finish them of as a MSH. Or start with your MSH burst rotation and than finish him of with range. Or you just stay as MSH.
The SH is now a very strong class if not the best (small scale) one atm. They are at there peak now.

User avatar
Jabba
Suspended
Posts: 343

Re: SH proposal

Post#57 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:10 pm
Jurki wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:32 pm
Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:08 pm
There is no rsh only anymore. Since rsh can/should use the new Squig Armor and the many core skills that tree has they should not be afraid anymore if they get caught at 65ft. Even without spending points in path of pouncing they have a lot of skills in Squig Armor
That makes balancing on rsh now even harder. I don't want a mobile kite class with 100ft and all the utilities that can be tougher with Squig Armor than a mdps (beside monstro Mar) if you manage to get them.
Disagree - the Squig Armor is only viable on QS skilled to prolong the fight when you get caught by melees for example to get an armor boost maybe to knock one down and kick them back - to get them back on distance - although youre already snared by the time. Without stuff like cleansing wind - even with potions its never enough to effectively survive and kill the opponents but only to win some time for your healers or tanks to save you. The temporary boost in the defensive stats isnt a significant change in the received dmg. Additionally it doesnt matter when you get knocked down and bursted away in less than 2 secs because your def stats are otherwise as effective as paper - which is a huge difference to like a WL where you can have decent survivability and a really strong dmg burst. But Im not here to discuss WL vs. SH situations.
I don't agree. A MSH can have very good survivability and good Burst. He has better escape tools than a WL. But I also don't want to discuss this in your topic about rsh.

You are probably the best rsh out here and it seems you are not a fan of the MSH aka meatball.
But it exists. For me it seems devs want to force SHs to play them hybrid. Either you start with range and than finish them of as a MSH. Or start with your MSH burst rotation and than finish him of with range. Or you just stay as MSH.
The SH is now a very strong class if not the best (small scale) one atm. They are at there peak now.
A mSH can have okay burst, if they're specced as melee with a horned squig out. Aoe mSH has no burst, their autos hit like wet noodles and their highest single target hit was taken away so anyone who says mSH has burst without horned squig is smoking something delightful. A ranged spec sh will have no damage whatsoever in squig armour.

There is literally no skill outside kaboom and the kd (maybe the snare that also does.paltry damage) that you would use in squig armour if you're specced for range (as they lost the melee interrupt and armour boost)
How does that make it a hybrid class?
Tushi Psychotik Splatter Emoalbino Podge

Jurki
Posts: 31

Re: SH proposal

Post#58 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:04 pm

Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:10 pm
Jurki wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:32 pm
Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:08 pm
There is no rsh only anymore. Since rsh can/should use the new Squig Armor and the many core skills that tree has they should not be afraid anymore if they get caught at 65ft. Even without spending points in path of pouncing they have a lot of skills in Squig Armor
That makes balancing on rsh now even harder. I don't want a mobile kite class with 100ft and all the utilities that can be tougher with Squig Armor than a mdps (beside monstro Mar) if you manage to get them.
Disagree - the Squig Armor is only viable on QS skilled to prolong the fight when you get caught by melees for example to get an armor boost maybe to knock one down and kick them back - to get them back on distance - although youre already snared by the time. Without stuff like cleansing wind - even with potions its never enough to effectively survive and kill the opponents but only to win some time for your healers or tanks to save you. The temporary boost in the defensive stats isnt a significant change in the received dmg. Additionally it doesnt matter when you get knocked down and bursted away in less than 2 secs because your def stats are otherwise as effective as paper - which is a huge difference to like a WL where you can have decent survivability and a really strong dmg burst. But Im not here to discuss WL vs. SH situations.
I don't agree. A MSH can have very good survivability and good Burst. He has better escape tools than a WL. But I also don't want to discuss this in your topic about rsh.

You are probably the best rsh out here and it seems you are not a fan of the MSH aka meatball.
But it exists. For me it seems devs want to force SHs to play them hybrid. Either you start with range and than finish them of as a MSH. Or start with your MSH burst rotation and than finish him of with range. Or you just stay as MSH.
The SH is now a very strong class if not the best one atm. They are at there peak now.
Ignore my answer here, something went wrong in quoting (maybe Internet connection).
Last edited by Jurki on Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jurki
Posts: 31

Re: SH proposal

Post#59 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:05 pm

Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:10 pm
Jurki wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:32 pm
Korhill wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:08 pm
There is no rsh only anymore. Since rsh can/should use the new Squig Armor and the many core skills that tree has they should not be afraid anymore if they get caught at 65ft. Even without spending points in path of pouncing they have a lot of skills in Squig Armor
That makes balancing on rsh now even harder. I don't want a mobile kite class with 100ft and all the utilities that can be tougher with Squig Armor than a mdps (beside monstro Mar) if you manage to get them.
Disagree - the Squig Armor is only viable on QS skilled to prolong the fight when you get caught by melees for example to get an armor boost maybe to knock one down and kick them back - to get them back on distance - although youre already snared by the time. Without stuff like cleansing wind - even with potions its never enough to effectively survive and kill the opponents but only to win some time for your healers or tanks to save you. The temporary boost in the defensive stats isnt a significant change in the received dmg. Additionally it doesnt matter when you get knocked down and bursted away in less than 2 secs because your def stats are otherwise as effective as paper - which is a huge difference to like a WL where you can have decent survivability and a really strong dmg burst. But Im not here to discuss WL vs. SH situations.
I don't agree. A MSH can have very good survivability and good Burst. He has better escape tools than a WL. But I also don't want to discuss this in your topic about rsh.

You are probably the best rsh out here and it seems you are not a fan of the MSH aka meatball.
But it exists. For me it seems devs want to force SHs to play them hybrid. Either you start with range and than finish them of as a MSH. Or start with your MSH burst rotation and than finish him of with range. Or you just stay as MSH.
The SH is now a very strong class if not the best one atm. They are at there peak now.
I dont talk about a mSH who still needs to focuse on the middle tree and who has to be in the squig armor stance to use its toolkit, I dont question their dmg potential but this is stuff for another discussion.

Sponn
Posts: 112

Re: SH proposal

Post#60 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:13 pm

I am thoroughly enjoying being assblasted by upgraded pets that can shoot and run through walls.

Awesome.

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