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Brutinho
Posts: 145

Re: SH proposal

Post#91 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:14 am

Teefz wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:16 am

EA has gone from being useful in a few situations, despite it's low damage, to being completely useless all together in this rework. There are multiple questions that come to mind:

- Why does Squig Herder need another AOE kb?

- Why is this ability now a 2s cast AOE if you are constantly stating that AOE is for bouncin' only?

The damage or lack thereof on the ability combined with the amount of downtime in DPS and mobility, I still find it extremely useless. Unless you wanna roleplay choppa and handout free immunites all over the place. Not worth the spec point in it's current form. The old pre-rework version would synergise better and provide another insta ailment for RA, since there is CD on YB now.


Currently with this rework, it feels like the direction you guys want is that QS-squig herders aren't ment to take part in various aspects such as keep/fortress or instigate fights anymore, but their sole purpose is to gank somewhere where their limited range isn't at a huge disadvantage or to charge right behind destruction's melee train. So far, overall, you've succesfully managed to raise the damage and skillcap of the spec, while ultimately sacrificing QS-squig herders viability in multiple environments. In a toss up between having shorter range and more dmg or having more range and less dmg, it would be interesting to see what the community would choose. Both specs can work imo, pre-rework is just significantly less trivial and adds more enjoyment and options to the overall gameplay of the character.
Jurki wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:08 pm
Tested the SH now quite a while and i have to say that its like playing an ego shooter. The amount of dmg burst is way too much with the new attempt of adjusting.

New suggestion:
-baseline 80ft range on QS
-remove the bonus crit dmg granted by SWDW on behind ya and red tipped arrer. or make it 20% bonus dmg.
-reduce the granted armor pen of the new tactic to like 15%
-remove the 5sec cd on Yer Bleedin, remove the ini debuff and apply it on shrapnel arrer
Grunbag wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:20 pm


We don’t want pet dance . Things are simple : if you want range you use gas squig, if you want burst damage you use spiked squig . No need to switch , it depend your build and play style. But it is possible to switch once time to time from one squig to another by using fatty squig or tastes like chicken for sure.

EA is something we wanted BS tree use (not skirmished that’s why it has 2 sec Cast. EA is offensive KD for siege purpose , Kaboom is a defensive aoe KB mostly used to have a safety range again.
I had similar ideas after trying out the new changes. Really liked that they moved FEO back to BS and RTA to 13pt with the added absorb break makes it really good.

Range: As teefz said it does feel that QS squigs (or rsh in general) are not meant to participate on keeps or forts anymore. To Jurki's proposal to increase the baseline to 80ft I have a small modification (considering an old comment you made) raise it to 75ft only, but update bonus on endgame gear to increase range by 10ft. Could be added to 4p warlord as it is a QS focused set (Invader range increase is at 5p, but endgame gear bonuses should be considerably better). You will have to sacrifice some other bonus(es) in order to get the range increase (i.e. armor pen or crit from sov main). This will leave QS skills at 85ft or 100 ft with Gas Squig. You can use Spike when roaming and in oRvR warbands as support ST burst or Gast Squig to harass keep and fort walls.

SWDW: If range changes were to happen I agree this tactic would bring too much damage without take much risk. Lowering the crit damage to 20-25% would be a fair adjustment in conjunction with Sharper Arrers Tactic.

Sharper Arrers: If range changes were to happen I aggreed it should be decreased. 20% armor pen should be fair as it is tied to having an active pet

Yer Bleedin: Interesting idea to keep it spamable and put the initiative debuff to Shrapnel Arrer

Explosive Arrer: Grunbag it is not a AOE KD, it is an AOE kock back and like Teefz said, it is not even worth spending a mastery point on it. Free immunities is already choppa's job :P Would rather have a insta or 1 sec cast ST punt to help keep targets at distance from the stationary ST damage tree.
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Grunbag
Project Team
Posts: 1881

Re: SH proposal

Post#92 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:14 am

It’s obvioulsy a typo I meant AOE KB
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Brutinho
Posts: 145

Re: SH proposal

Post#93 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:59 am

Last couple of weeks I have been trying a few things and I wanted to give it a good try before I posted my findings. First I like the direction the team has taken with the last couple of patches. Addressing the damage (Sharper arrer not working on pet) and certain skills (like finish em off to BS p9). That been said, there are mainly 2 points I would suggest taking a look into.

1) Explosive arrer: The problem with this skills is that is suppose to bring a tool to keep targets away but having a cast time of 2 secs just feels counter productive. Having it as AOE also punishes the skill as no one wants to be giving away free immunities. I suggest lowering the cast to 1 sec (keeping 20sec CD) or insta cast (increasing to 30 sec CD). In both cases AOE would go.

2) Range and range increasers: As I way to try how QS would feel like with 75ft I have been running 5p Invader and using spike squig instead of been (also obligated) using gas squig. It is true that both pets should have their uses and their moments, but with QS's current state is very difficult to justify the use of spike squig as it means death. The increase to 75 ft is nothing out of the ordinary, but gives a good balance between risk and reward for well played SH. It feels challenging but not impossible to survive certain scenarios. There are sets(set) out there that increase range, but this set (invader) is out of date compared to endgame gear such as WL, SOV main and SOV off. The sacrifice of stats is far too great to commit to. With that context I want to propose in increase of QS skills to 75ft with one of the following considerations:
2.1) Firstly, if range on QS is increased to 75ft, gas squig range buff should be reduced to +10ft. WL set is a lower item level than SOV and is already the set that is focused on path of QS which makes it the perfect candidate for a QS range bonus. The reasoning is that players would have to sacrifice certain damage bonuses from SOV main such as 6% armor pen and 6% crit in order to get the range bonus from WL, but without having to sacrifice a massive amount of stats by picking invader. Bonus could be adjusted to 10 ft on QS skills only is it replaces the 4p bonus.
2.2) Pretty much everything on 2.1, but slight difference if in bonus range is on WL 5p bonus. It would increase 10ft on all range skills not only QS.


Examples on range changes:
- Someone using mainly SOV main would have 75 ft (or 85ft when using gas squig) which is and increase of 10ft on minimum distance and 5ft on maximum distance compare to what it currently is.
- Someone using mainly WL would have 85 ft (or 95ft using gast squig) which is an increase of 10ft on minimum distance
and 5ft on maximum distance compare to someone currently using invader.

It is a minimal increase in range that would still bring challenges and having to balance between risk and reward depending on your playstyle, and by consequence will bring choices to players. Many more ways of building rSH.

Edit24/12/2020: If range increase changes were to happen, SWTW should be tuned down to 25% crit dmg instead of 50%
Spoiler:
Sorry Jurki I just wanted to tag you for your take on it :P
Jurki wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:41 pm
...
Last edited by Brutinho on Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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anarchypark
Posts: 1812

Re: SH proposal

Post#94 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:40 pm

EA is to punt enemies off from wall in siege. It's not 1on1 or small scale skill.

in fort defense, you can punt attackers at lord floor ramp to bottom.
they lose morales during climbing up.
It gives advatage to your funnel force, if there's any.
imagine punted backline supports when m4 push.
sieze the timing with awareness.
and SH can Kaboom paratroopers i mean flying raiders.

sorc punt tactic couldn't take timing.
this and GTDC was immune spreading in siege.
now destro have pinpoint punt along with shaman Geddoff( not sure why destro not using it )
CC > dmg score, sometimes.

I think QS testing need mandatory guard/heal. like skirmish SW, or slayer/choppa, bw/sorc, in fact every dps.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL6, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB5, EG5, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
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maxonian
Posts: 13

Re: SH proposal

Post#95 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:27 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:40 pm
EA is to punt enemies off from wall in siege. It's not 1on1 or small scale skill.

Absolutely this.

Brutinho wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:59 am

1) Explosive arrer: The problem with this skills is that is suppose to bring a tool to keep targets away

EA is NOT a tool to keep targets away in 1v1, small scale. I dont get why SH players still lament about EA and are trying to bend this skill to fit the uses it was never supposed to do. We have more than enough abilities to keep targets away already. And EA isnt one of them.

User avatar
Brutinho
Posts: 145

Re: SH proposal

Post#96 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:31 pm

Was meant for Patch notes sorry
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