Change city queue system; group of 6 as bare minimum to enter queue

[kirraha]

You choose to punish the people who keep working to improve the quality of the battles and who really are the people making a big effort in the things they do. With these changes you literally just piss in their faces,.

Solo-Q is the new meta => but only for endgame content....For any other aspect of the game group up is ok.

Its Ok that premade Wbs and organized players lead the campaign and when finally city comes the same players who leaded campaign gets punished...looks fair.

Which makes 0 sense. ENDGAME, soloque meta. How does one design an MMO that way?

[Panzer80]

I also came to the same conclusion. Nice and quick, gets a six man, queen, in and out. Much more simple for all involved.

[Aethilmar]

So, to summarize:

1) guilds on overpopulated side are getting "city starvation" issues b/c they refuse to follow the intended incentives of switching sides to balance things out thus ...
2) guilds on overpopulated side blame solo queue for taking "their" slots (because they think they would be pushing city all the time without the extra bodies that help them overwhelm the enemy ... ha!) and they want to punish all solo queue folks by forbidding it but ...
3) removing solo queue option for underpopulated side will just make starvation situation worse for overpopulated side so ....
4) name calling and general whinging ensue.

FWIW I solo Q-ed Order on Sunday and had to wait until last 10 minutes to get in (which was fine). Knowing you have to wait until the end gives you time to do other things like try to gank destro on their way to city gate (which is hard but amusing on a SnB tank). Also ran into a premade and got PUG-stomped but still got 8 royals from bags and such while winning side got their feel-good victory. Seems like everybody won. Move on.

[Nosun]

I couldn't agree more with this last post. The over populated side that has most of the organized groups all playing on same side plus the rest of destro is what breaks the game. You are never going to turn pug players into hardcore organized players. You can try but what you will get is people leaving the game or just not doing city. You can't all play destro and then cry there is nobody good to fight. Part of the problem was some of the organized order guilds leaving completely and some switching to destro but a server population balance that is often 60% destro and 40% order is kind of a joke at this point. Anyway I really don't feel bad for the destro premades crying in this thread cause they don't get to roll over order pugs anymore but because that's what they are really mad about. They say they want good fights but its total b.s. from most of them actively avoiding them to try to get an easy pug win. Personally i could care less about city at this point but winning half of them since the changes has been nice and I am 90% order side player who has started to que again for city after months of either dropping down to mid tier characters to run scenarios or just logging out for a bit while city is going on.

[Everdin]

It’s not about bothering to group up, it’s about too many classes being punished because they are subpar in the city siege scenario. Forcing those players to group up would result in the same situation as we have now. Small amount of instances, Order losing most, lots of Destro not getting in.

Let the premades fight premades and solo players fight solo players.

Which classes are subpar? You have room for 1-2 WE/WH for per city in the ST group that trains over healers, and you can fill even 1-2 Engi/Magus to add AoE pressure to the bomb. Sure, when there are maybe 10-15 instances the spots become scarce, but that cannot be helped much when it comes down to population. SW/SH are just fine, both deliver considerable AoE pressure.
When cities are currently an unorganized mess with people soloing and just trying to leech, having them form the bare minimum of a group (even if its 5dps 1heal or 1tank 4 dps 1 heal), will start making the fights more balanced. After that, it will be easier to draw realistic conclusions about "balance issues". (Order is actually OP, but most of them really have no intention of getting organized and showing their true potential)

Getting access to the real "endgame" and actual BIS gear should not be in the category of "lol ill just walk in solo - oh crap enemy is organized - devs pls nerf" - but rather its the final stage of a large open RVR campaign, where warbands have pushed their path through a dozen zones and forts, with COORDINATION and ORGANIZATION to achieve their aims of sieging enemy city. When you get to the cookier jar, you are not supposed to solo it, nor are you expected to gain fair rewards if you choose to throw in the towel before even trying.
This is still not a solo game, not a single player roleplaying game, but a MMORPG.

Reality speaks another language, there is always these Argument: "But in a good warband you can use class x and class y can also be usefull."

Just play these classes and ask for warband while there are still r80+ slayers and brightwizzards left and you will see what a choice you have to get in the city.
1) You go solo
2) You log out
3) You get in a warband build out of leftovers
4) You know someone or someone knows you good enough to get you in a decent warband

and even if you say "You have room for 1-2 from class x" this means nothing, there are more then 1 or 2 engis/magus/witchelf/witchhunter on the server. I never heared there are to many slayers/choppers, we need more wh/we...

[Sponn]

400 Destro VS 250 Order for City ..
find the mistake...

This. *looks at population imbalance for the past year*

[Rapzel]

400 Destro VS 250 Order for City ..
find the mistake...

This. *looks at population imbalance for the past year*

Yea because April, May, June, Juli, August, September and a part into October of 2020 wasn't a constant Order zerg.

[hammerhead]

400 Destro VS 250 Order for City ..
find the mistake...

This. *looks at population imbalance for the past year*

Yea because April, May, June, Juli, August, September and a part into October of 2020 wasn't a constant Order zerg.

fixed

Yea because August, September and a part into October of 2020 wasn't a constant Order zerg.

[Miaso]

Even during the "Order Zerg" couple of months the City pop was pretty even, as Destro always have a bunch of City loggers. I think only once I didn't get a City pop during that time, usually the pop was within a few minutes in group or solo.

[Aurandilaz]

Reality speaks another language, there is always these Argument: "But in a good warband you can use class x and class y can also be usefull."

Just play these classes and ask for warband while there are still r80+ slayers and brightwizzards left and you will see what a choice you have to get in the city.
1) You go solo
2) You log out
3) You get in a warband build out of leftovers
4) You know someone or someone knows you good enough to get you in a decent warband

and even if you say "You have room for 1-2 from class x" this means nothing, there are more then 1 or 2 engis/magus/witchelf/witchhunter on the server. I never heared there are to many slayers/choppers, we need more wh/we...

man I have tried years of giving suggestions and talking to devs wishing for a WE/WH warband AoE spec, but so far I've only seen it nuked twice to oblivion. Good luck convincing them in future, I have so far not succeeded.
That being said, I do manage to get my WE often enough into guild/ally city warband (no point in doing open RVR wbs on my WE anyway), and having 1-2 WE/Wh in city is just fine. Obviously this means that when there are 15 instances and more than 15 WE's online, some will be sent to the pugslaughter, same goes for engi/magus players as well.
Yes, chop/SL/BW/Sorc/Mara/Wl get easier spots, they have easier time being relevant in city sieges spamming AOE at same spot, SH and SW also can be put into this category. Engi and Magus will also do just fine, however stacking more than 1-2 of them and they lose effectiveness if they all try napalming same spot.
Heals/tanks, all 6 classes will be in demand nonstop, so no issues on that front.

Maybe I will write my 2857th balance proposal to make We/WH more viable, wish me luck...