2h Tank guard

[Fey]

Leave it. Blocking a spell barely makes sense, parrying a spell makes no sense just like parrying an arrow.

2-hand has plenty of opportunity to shine. SnB specs have barely been touched as the devs have worked to make 2-hand superior to SnB in many areas. Be thankful you even have full guard.

God forbid you slot a shield and play your role properly. Your meh dps spec is too important.

[raught19]

I agree with many others here. Its funny this was posted because I noticed my Siphon Energy and Tzeentch's reflection was procing off my guard and didn't remember that being a thing in the past. I wonder if there is some middle ground that can be reached.

Like guarded attacks count as all types, and be dodged, Disrupted, parried, or blocked. So that way the highest value still gets the most use.

That sort of change might make guard even stronger but would help a lot in RvR.

I can definitely see the merit both ways though.

[kirraha]

Id like to have the current change reverted to see 2h tanks useful in wb/organized/smallscale/city again.

Variation makes the game better.

[Rapzel]

But the change appeared on patchnotes only 6 months ago or so

Yes people noticed it then, made a bug report. Then devs changed so it said dodge/disrupt instead of "parry".

dalen commented on 30 Aug 2020
yes, attacker stats influence it on RoR, it doesn't seem to work at all as it did back on live. This might be some intentional change from a long time ago, I'm not sure. Need to look into it a bit.

https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/17563

So basically, it is about a 20% nerf on parry for guard on top of all magic and range damage no longer beeing parried?

Idk where you got 20% from. But from what I've gathered from the fragments of the source code we've been able to witness
Parry/dodge/disrupt strikethrough is calculated through;
a = attackers mainstat (bs/int/str)
d = defenders defensive stat(init/wp/ws)
chance to avoid attack = a/d*0.075
and upon that you add disrupt/dodge/parry - attackers reduction to be disrupted/dodged/parried.

On live all guard damage was seen as a 0 str attack from the front no matter the source, the damage it self was "pure" (just like it is here). Here undefendable attacks and the stats + strike through are transferred with the guard damage (unsure if wording makes sense), example; on live if a engineer used snipe on your guard target and did 3000 dmg your target would take 1500 damage (3000/2) and you would then do a parry roll vs a 0 str attack and either parry the guard damage or take 1500 damage. In RoR you take 1500 damage as well as it's undefendable.

Same situation but with a Sorceress with 10% reduced chance to be disrupted that casts Doombolt that hits your target (i.e does not disrupt it) and does 3000 damage, on live your guarded target would take 1500 damage and you would do a parry roll vs. a 0 str attack and succeed or fail in parrying the guard damage (same outcome), on ror the int of the sorc would be matched against your wp, then your disrupt vs sorcs reduced chance to be disrupted would apply (say you have 300 wp with 18% disrupt and sorc has 1050 int with the 10% reduced chance to be disrupted you'd get 1050/300 * 0.075 + (18-10) = 8.2625% chance to disrupt the guard damage) and a disrupt roll would be made to determine if you defend the damage or not.

This is the main reason why people think Rampage might be overperforming for a 5 point mastery ability.

Leave it. Blocking a spell barely makes sense, parrying a spell makes no sense just like parrying an arrow.

2-hand has plenty of opportunity to shine. SnB specs have barely been touched as the devs have worked to make 2-hand superior to SnB in many areas. Be thankful you even have full guard.

God forbid you slot a shield and play your role properly. Your meh dps spec is too important.

You think sharing the damage from a bleeding wound that lasts for 9 sec with someone who just stands 30 feet next to you because he's said he'd guard you makes more sense?
The issue here is that block works against everything, and is calculated before secondary defensive rolls making SnB superior in every defensive aspect of the game, if you run in a WB SnB is better and has always been.
Have you even seen the reworks on SnB BG?
2h tank has been nothing but nerfed here, the only legit "buff" that I am aware of is the chosen/kotbs punt tactic adding a -10 sec only while wielding a 2h.
I understand that it's easy for you as a Zerg surfer to not understand why this is a big deal when you are busy PvE'ing keeps and blaming dps healers and dps tanks for dying but for people who take other aspects of the game somewhat serious this has been quite a big deal, there's almost no 6 mans even trying to run in the ORvR lakes at all anymore.

[Dabbart]

I wonder how many of the people posting ignorance of this change have been blaming Slayers for their tank deaths... I liked the change, and still do. But I've never give a **** about tank dps output, and always go SnB.

2h tanks still have almost all the other tank tools. Outside of HtL your dodge,disrupt is largely the same as SnB, if you take deft defender. If you don't want HtL then you don't get it, what's the issue? You can't stack one evasion stat for guard damage anymore, adapt.

[Stophy22]

Good ol war, a lot of people feel strongly on something and then a good amount of people feel just as strong about the inverse haha.

[lyncher12]

Yes people noticed it then, made a bug report. Then devs changed so it said dodge/disrupt instead of "parry".


https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/17563

So basically, it is about a 20% nerf on parry for guard on top of all magic and range damage no longer beeing parried?

Idk where you got 20% from. But from what I've gathered from the fragments of the source code we've been able to witness
Parry/dodge/disrupt strikethrough is calculated through;
a = attackers mainstat (bs/int/str)
d = defenders defensive stat(init/wp/ws)
chance to avoid attack = a/d*0.075
and upon that you add disrupt/dodge/parry - attackers reduction to be disrupted/dodged/parried.

On live all guard damage was seen as a 0 str attack from the front no matter the source, the damage it self was "pure" (just like it is here). Here undefendable attacks and the stats + strike through are transferred with the guard damage (unsure if wording makes sense), example; on live if a engineer used snipe on your guard target and did 3000 dmg your target would take 1500 damage (3000/2) and you would then do a parry roll vs a 0 str attack and either parry the guard damage or take 1500 damage. In RoR you take 1500 damage as well as it's undefendable.

Same situation but with a Sorceress with 10% reduced chance to be disrupted that casts Doombolt that hits your target (i.e does not disrupt it) and does 3000 damage, on live your guarded target would take 1500 damage and you would do a parry roll vs. a 0 str attack and succeed or fail in parrying the guard damage (same outcome), on ror the int of the sorc would be matched against your wp, then your disrupt vs sorcs reduced chance to be disrupted would apply (say you have 300 wp with 18% disrupt and sorc has 1050 int with the 10% reduced chance to be disrupted you'd get 1050/300 * 0.075 + (18-10) = 8.2625% chance to disrupt the guard damage) and a disrupt roll would be made to determine if you defend the damage or not.

This is the main reason why people think Rampage might be overperforming for a 5 point mastery ability.

Leave it. Blocking a spell barely makes sense, parrying a spell makes no sense just like parrying an arrow.

2-hand has plenty of opportunity to shine. SnB specs have barely been touched as the devs have worked to make 2-hand superior to SnB in many areas. Be thankful you even have full guard.

God forbid you slot a shield and play your role properly. Your meh dps spec is too important.

You think sharing the damage from a bleeding wound that lasts for 9 sec with someone who just stands 30 feet next to you because he's said he'd guard you makes more sense?
The issue here is that block works against everything, and is calculated before secondary defensive rolls making SnB superior in every defensive aspect of the game, if you run in a WB SnB is better and has always been.
Have you even seen the reworks on SnB BG?
2h tank has been nothing but nerfed here, the only legit "buff" that I am aware of is the chosen/kotbs punt tactic adding a -10 sec only while wielding a 2h.
I understand that it's easy for you as a Zerg surfer to not understand why this is a big deal when you are busy PvE'ing keeps and blaming dps healers and dps tanks for dying but for people who take other aspects of the game somewhat serious this has been quite a big deal, there's almost no 6 mans even trying to run in the ORvR lakes at all anymore.

It wasn't even a buff. It was -10 seconds and better punt with the tactic but now that requires a 2H for the cooldown reduction.

[detrap]

This post doesn't make much sense, you go 2h to do more damage yet you want the survivability closer to a snb tank? There was reasons for these changes. If you want to play a 2h support role with survivability, go vanq for defense bonus and sentinel weapon or epic quest weapon. Or play an sm. It's not fair that 2h tanks are just as hard to kill as snb tanks.

If you also want more survivability as a 2h have more snb tanks in the warband using htl?

It was a great change and better for the game overall!

[Ysaran]

DISCLAIMER: it's not about the damage!
13 years this game is out, and ppl still don't get it. When you go 2h you get improved punt and utility. No one cares about damage.
Also, not everyone play in WB. Lots of ppl play small-scale. In small-scale you need the punt, it's tank most important tool. But you often fight outnumbered so you must be as hard as possible. Now it's not possible anymore. That's the problem

[Ysaran]

Yes people noticed it then, made a bug report. Then devs changed so it said dodge/disrupt instead of "parry".


https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/17563

So basically, it is about a 20% nerf on parry for guard on top of all magic and range damage no longer beeing parried?

Idk where you got 20% from. But from what I've gathered from the fragments of the source code we've been able to witness
Parry/dodge/disrupt strikethrough is calculated through;
a = attackers mainstat (bs/int/str)
d = defenders defensive stat(init/wp/ws)
chance to avoid attack = a/d*0.075
and upon that you add disrupt/dodge/parry - attackers reduction to be disrupted/dodged/parried.

On live all guard damage was seen as a 0 str attack from the front no matter the source, the damage it self was "pure" (just like it is here). Here undefendable attacks and the stats + strike through are transferred with the guard damage (unsure if wording makes sense), example; on live if a engineer used snipe on your guard target and did 3000 dmg your target would take 1500 damage (3000/2) and you would then do a parry roll vs a 0 str attack and either parry the guard damage or take 1500 damage. In RoR you take 1500 damage as well as it's undefendable.

Same situation but with a Sorceress with 10% reduced chance to be disrupted that casts Doombolt that hits your target (i.e does not disrupt it) and does 3000 damage, on live your guarded target would take 1500 damage and you would do a parry roll vs. a 0 str attack and succeed or fail in parrying the guard damage (same outcome), on ror the int of the sorc would be matched against your wp, then your disrupt vs sorcs reduced chance to be disrupted would apply (say you have 300 wp with 18% disrupt and sorc has 1050 int with the 10% reduced chance to be disrupted you'd get 1050/300 * 0.075 + (18-10) = 8.2625% chance to disrupt the guard damage) and a disrupt roll would be made to determine if you defend the damage or not.

This is the main reason why people think Rampage might be overperforming for a 5 point mastery ability.

Leave it. Blocking a spell barely makes sense, parrying a spell makes no sense just like parrying an arrow.

2-hand has plenty of opportunity to shine. SnB specs have barely been touched as the devs have worked to make 2-hand superior to SnB in many areas. Be thankful you even have full guard.

God forbid you slot a shield and play your role properly. Your meh dps spec is too important.

You think sharing the damage from a bleeding wound that lasts for 9 sec with someone who just stands 30 feet next to you because he's said he'd guard you makes more sense?
The issue here is that block works against everything, and is calculated before secondary defensive rolls making SnB superior in every defensive aspect of the game, if you run in a WB SnB is better and has always been.
Have you even seen the reworks on SnB BG?
2h tank has been nothing but nerfed here, the only legit "buff" that I am aware of is the chosen/kotbs punt tactic adding a -10 sec only while wielding a 2h.
I understand that it's easy for you as a Zerg surfer to not understand why this is a big deal when you are busy PvE'ing keeps and blaming dps healers and dps tanks for dying but for people who take other aspects of the game somewhat serious this has been quite a big deal, there's almost no 6 mans even trying to run in the ORvR lakes at all anymore.

The avoidance formula you wrote is the right one, but the contri from stats is capped at 25%. I think Nekkama was referring to this fact. Since guard damage doesn't have 1 str anymore, now you don't always have that +25% parry at guard damage