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2h Tank guard

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Targhor
Posts: 23

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#51 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:19 am

the "completely kill" is debateable, Idrinth.
it would put players into a position to chose what they want to do. like healclasses that decide to play dps.
-if your initial reply would have been "hey! they still can (somewhat) heal...!", i would want to reply with: "hey, 2h tanks can still crowdcontrol!".

granting the guard ability to 2h-speccs, feels wrong/too advantageous to me. one of the main reasons is the freed up 20 renown points from block, to spend elsewhere.
as far as i can tell, 2h-guards grant their biggest advantage in smallscale-engagements; -in a Mmorp, that to this very day attracts plenty players due to its RvR.
Secrets and co pushing & tweaking this game towards shining in smallscale is sad to watch and i can´t even tell how glad i am that peterthe*peep* is no longer part of the dev-team, otherwise RoR would be going down the drain in a hurried flush.

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engharat
Posts: 29

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#52 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:26 am

Targhor wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:45 am
i know its a rather unpopular pov, but i would be very fine with guard being a "requires shield"-skill.
would solve all this ado here too.
So that no one, literally no one, would invite in a group a 2h tank. Why getting a shitty dps which cannot guard? Way better take a true dps or a true tank instead!

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detrap
Posts: 264
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#53 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:32 am

Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:38 am
detrap wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:36 am
Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:58 am


You never had the same survivability on 2h as on snb not sure where you got that from.
You did because you can stack parry on many tanks and parry ALL the defendable guard damage, no matter the source it came from. Survivability for 2h was far better then than it is now. Better than a lot of snb tanks that only had 30%-40% block
If you have the option to hit 2 tanks. 1 with snb and 1 with 2h which would you choose?
Your point is?
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

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Targhor
Posts: 23

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#54 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:35 am

engharat wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:26 am
So that no one, literally no one, would invite in a group a 2h tank. Why getting a shitty dps which cannot guard? Way better take a true dps or a true tank instead!
False.
Good 2h tank players do good damage. And they bring crowdcontrol and better survivability compared to other mdps to the table. that still leaves room for groupcomposition & lineups.

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Akilinus
Posts: 349

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#55 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:47 am

detrap wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:32 am
Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:38 am
detrap wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:36 am


You did because you can stack parry on many tanks and parry ALL the defendable guard damage, no matter the source it came from. Survivability for 2h was far better then than it is now. Better than a lot of snb tanks that only had 30%-40% block
If you have the option to hit 2 tanks. 1 with snb and 1 with 2h which would you choose?
Your point is?
2h is way easier to kill if you focus them. And snb tanks can take parry + block so not sure why you are trying to make it sound like high parry is better than your 40% block.
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detrap
Posts: 264
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#56 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:54 am

Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:47 am
detrap wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:32 am
Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:38 am

If you have the option to hit 2 tanks. 1 with snb and 1 with 2h which would you choose?
Your point is?
2h is way easier to kill if you focus them. And snb tanks can take parry + block so not sure why you are trying to make it sound like high parry is better than your 40% block.
If you read what I wrote, I was saying 2h tanks were harder to kill, and in many cases tankier than snb tanks. The change is better now.

Who would you rather hit....a 2h tank, a snb tank, or better targets such as the dps and healers? lol
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

engharat
Posts: 29

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#57 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:54 am

Targhor wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:35 am
engharat wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:26 am
So that no one, literally no one, would invite in a group a 2h tank. Why getting a shitty dps which cannot guard? Way better take a true dps or a true tank instead!
False.
Good 2h tank players do good damage. And they bring crowdcontrol and better survivability compared to other mdps to the table. that still leaves room for groupcomposition & lineups.
Unfortunately, your assertions are false. Good 2h tank players dish probably half, if not 1/3, of the damage of a good dps player. They bring crowdcontrol but they lack for anything else; the problem is that a true tank provide crowdcontrol and much more, becoming the obvious favorable choice in any case.
Boiling down to simple numbers, the scenario is something like that:
1h snb tank hits for 100
2h tank hits for 400.
Dps hits for 1500.
Smart WB builders will never take 2h tank looking at the +300dmg w.r.t. 1h tank, because this comes to the expense of no guard at all(like someone proposes) or at guard dmg quickly chewing through the 2h tank; they will take 1h tank because they can properly guard their dps, they survive even while guarding, and they provide all the tank goodness needed. The WB will not miss the slightly more dps of a tank, because dps is provided by...dps characters.
This reflects the current situation from destro side: on any serious city siege WB you will find ONE 2h BG for the nice aoe crit chance, and that is. Try to ask for group as 2h chosen/BO and they will correctly laugh on your face.

What was originally the point of being a 2h tank then? was a nice tradeoff between survability and damage. But in the current system you trade off too much survability for gaining so small advantages.

hellc95
Posts: 11

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#58 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:57 am

2h tanks are still tanks. They have a slightly different playstyle to snb but they still function as tanks. Any 2h tanks that think he's a mdps is just a fool and a hinderance to their group. So stop thinking of 2h as mdps role, since they don't have any tool to finish off kills or do any real damage they just bring some single target assist or fluff (aka meaningless) aoe.
That said, nowadays is impossible to roam in orvr with a 2h, they just die before their dps. It's about time someone question this change, is really bad and again follows the trend of ZergVsZerg that seems to be pushed recently, I'd say since the morale change, since now both factions can just blob in 3/4 wbs stack without any serious threat. Any kind of outnumbered pvp is being seriously harmed since a long time, this is just another change that makes it harder to roam around in a smaller group.
I'm not really against this change. I liked going around with a 2h, kind of a shame that my rvr 2h gear is now completely outdated and almost useless, but oh well, I don't mind having a shield, it's the same gameplay after all, the real problem is the phylosophy -or even the lack of- behind those changes.
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Akilinus
Posts: 349

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#59 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:01 am

detrap wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:54 am
Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:47 am
detrap wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:32 am


Your point is?
2h is way easier to kill if you focus them. And snb tanks can take parry + block so not sure why you are trying to make it sound like high parry is better than your 40% block.
If you read what I wrote, I was saying 2h tanks were harder to kill, and in many cases tankier than snb tanks. The change is better now.

Who would you rather hit....a 2h tank, a snb tank, or better targets such as the dps and healers? lol
They never were harder to kill than the snb tanks.
Obviously but dps or heales are not part of this discussion.
Kkomrade 80 Zealot Akilinuz 80 Chosen
Kkomrades 80 Black Guard Sauer 80 Squig herder

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detrap
Posts: 264
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#60 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:09 am

Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:01 am
detrap wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:54 am
Akilinus wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:47 am


2h is way easier to kill if you focus them. And snb tanks can take parry + block so not sure why you are trying to make it sound like high parry is better than your 40% block.
If you read what I wrote, I was saying 2h tanks were harder to kill, and in many cases tankier than snb tanks. The change is better now.

Who would you rather hit....a 2h tank, a snb tank, or better targets such as the dps and healers? lol
They never were harder to kill than the snb tanks.
Obviously but dps or heales are not part of this discussion.
They were...a 2h tank should not survive the guard damage better or equal to a snb tank because easy capabilities to have 70-100% parry. I can explain how guard damage worked if you like.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

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