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Alucard2010
Posts: 63

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#141 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:51 am

ashton007 wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:48 pm
detrap wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:42 pm
ashton007 wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:06 pm


You hear how ridiculous that is? You need ALL the defensive stats to mimic having a shield, leaving you no room for dps stats which was the entire **** point of picking up 2h in the first place. Why not just remove 2h altogether lol...
You pick up 2h because some abilities require you to have one. You also pick up 2h because you are in the single target party (that is not taking blob damage) in the warband or doing smaller scale PvP like scenarios.
Awfully bold to assume you don’t take blob damage because you are in st party. Lol the aoe cap is 24. Judging by your character tags you don’t even have enough experience to possibly know wtf you’re talking about. This is ror this ain’t live mr. t3 kobs. You should be mad, being a knight. You were single handedly the most impacted 2h tank by these changes. This game is supposed to be balanced around warband play and this was a change for quite the opposite.
No point in arguing with this guy. Most of us don't anymore.

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sharpblader
Posts: 75

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#142 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:52 am

detrap wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:14 am
sharpblader wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:58 am
detrap wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:44 am


2h SM's did a better job guarding champs as a non champ, better than any snb tank could on order. Because 90%-100% parry (over 200% every few seconds) > than a tank with around 35% block and parry

For guard damage, parry % similar to this is better than most snb tanks.

Since guard damage now requires us to dodge/disrupt, 2h tanks cant get away with mitigating the amount of guard damage they used to. Which is fair.
It seems that either you're choosing your words poorly or only talking theoretically.

I'm agreeing with what you say to conclude. I believe it is fair and makes sense how it's working now.

What I am debating is that you speak about all tanks being tankier as 2h as compared to SnB while citing only SM as an example. Which 2h tanks have you played to state this I'm genuinely curious.

Now you say that they guard more effectively. How? Your guardee will take half damage whether youre running 2h, SnB or just naked.
Never said all tanks being tankier. I said tanks can be equal to or better at taking guard damage with a 2h build before the changes. Any tank that can PvE as a 2h for example could get away with it in warband vs warband fights. Examples are SM/Chosen/BG/IB. Any tank that can get high amounts of parry was getting away with doing a lot more damage than a snb tank whilst surviving just as well, because in city fights for example, tanks are targeted last regardless they are 2h or snb.

The more you parry the guard damage, the less the healers need to heal you and they can focus heal/morale the dps you are guarding. With the new changes, 2h tanks will also put a strain on their healers because of the increased amount of guard damage they are now receiving.

Don't know how you think I'm speaking theoretically when I've explained in detail the over powered state parry was for mitigating guard damage before.

Hope that makes sense.
Read your first post on this thread.

1. You talk about the change being justified as 2h was being more tanky than SnB while doing more damage as a whole.

2. Then you base this entire logic on the claim that 2h was guarding more damage than SnB, while ignoring the fact that guard is only one source of damage.

3. For evidence to substantiate your claims, you're citing only one tank out of six (others vaguely). Also, for evidence you're citing avoidance procs from gear which does not have 100% uptime.

Hence, I conclude you're speaking theoretically without much personal experience. Also because it seems you're avoiding my question on what 2h tanks you're playing and at what rr to speak with such authority on your claims.

Once again, I'm arguing against your claims, not to revert the guard changes for I agree with them.

I'm trying not to be condescending but genuinely want to understand where you're coming from
because it just seems you're arguing for the sake argument.

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detrap
Posts: 269
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#143 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:48 am

sharpblader wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:52 am
Spoiler:
detrap wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:14 am
sharpblader wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:58 am


It seems that either you're choosing your words poorly or only talking theoretically.

I'm agreeing with what you say to conclude. I believe it is fair and makes sense how it's working now.

What I am debating is that you speak about all tanks being tankier as 2h as compared to SnB while citing only SM as an example. Which 2h tanks have you played to state this I'm genuinely curious.

Now you say that they guard more effectively. How? Your guardee will take half damage whether youre running 2h, SnB or just naked.
Never said all tanks being tankier. I said tanks can be equal to or better at taking guard damage with a 2h build before the changes. Any tank that can PvE as a 2h for example could get away with it in warband vs warband fights. Examples are SM/Chosen/BG/IB. Any tank that can get high amounts of parry was getting away with doing a lot more damage than a snb tank whilst surviving just as well, because in city fights for example, tanks are targeted last regardless they are 2h or snb.

The more you parry the guard damage, the less the healers need to heal you and they can focus heal/morale the dps you are guarding. With the new changes, 2h tanks will also put a strain on their healers because of the increased amount of guard damage they are now receiving.

Don't know how you think I'm speaking theoretically when I've explained in detail the over powered state parry was for mitigating guard damage before.

Hope that makes sense.
Read your first post on this thread.

1. You talk about the change being justified as 2h was being more tanky than SnB while doing more damage as a whole.

2. Then you base this entire logic on the claim that 2h was guarding more damage than SnB, while ignoring the fact that guard is only one source of damage.

3. For evidence to substantiate your claims, you're citing only one tank out of six (others vaguely). Also, for evidence you're citing avoidance procs from gear which does not have 100% uptime.

Hence, I conclude you're speaking theoretically without much personal experience. Also because it seems you're avoiding my question on what 2h tanks you're playing and at what rr to speak with such authority on your claims.

Once again, I'm arguing against your claims, not to revert the guard changes for I agree with them.

I'm trying not to be condescending but genuinely want to understand where you're coming from
because it just seems you're arguing for the sake argument.


1. You talk about the change being justified as 2h was being more tanky than SnB while doing more damage as a whole.

I said tanks can be equal to or better at taking guard damage with a 2h build before the changes.

SM can be better than most snb tanks at eating guard damage. Any other tank class that could buff its own parry was capable of being just as hard to kill via guard damage as snb tanks.

2. Then you base this entire logic on the claim that 2h was guarding more damage than SnB, while ignoring the fact that guard is only one source of damage.

Any tank that can get high amounts of parry was getting away with doing a lot more damage than a snb tank whilst surviving just as well, because in city fights for example, tanks are targeted last regardless they are 2h or snb.

3. For evidence to substantiate your claims, you're citing only one tank out of six (others vaguely). Also, for evidence you're citing avoidance procs from gear which does not have 100% uptime.

Examples are SM/Chosen/BG/IB. Any tank that can get high amounts of parry. I'm also taking into consideration that tanks also need to use abilities to increase their block rate. SM was used because it's a clear example.

Hence, I conclude you're speaking theoretically without much personal experience. Also because it seems you're avoiding my question on what 2h tanks you're playing and at what rr to speak with such authority on your claims.

Please ask in game how much parry each tank can stack, being high renown rank doesn't necessarily mean someone's words hold much weight, which looks like the case throughout this thread. I'm still learning new things every few weeks about the classes I play.

If you have 2h tanks that are melting to guard damage, ask for help. If the response is from someone salty about the changes, ask someone who actually is doing just fine with it.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

Duukar
Posts: 142

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#144 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:39 pm

They either need to add more dodge disrupt to gear(at no penalty to current stats) or revert these changes.

Melting as a tank ain't fun. Even if I am holding a 2H. Its a bit much.

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detrap
Posts: 269
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#145 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:27 pm

Duukar wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:39 pm
They either need to add more dodge disrupt to gear(at no penalty to current stats) or revert these changes.

Melting as a tank ain't fun. Even if I am holding a 2H. Its a bit much.
Vanq/Bloodlord/warlord are all good options right now along with epic quest 2h or sentinel 2h. If you have trouble with positioning, stack toughness as much as possible and futile strikes. Easy.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

ashton007
Posts: 229

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#146 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:27 pm

Any amount of damage u gain for going 2h does not warrant this kind of guard nerf. That’s your main job as a tank, 2 handed or not. And again this game is supposed to be balanced around warband play and they just gutted 2h further. You aren’t doing enough aoe/St damage with a 2h to warrant the guard nerf. If avoidance was really too **** high for 2h tanks then they should just let guard check for toughness and at least let us mitigate it. At this point no one wants a 2h in their wb

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 786

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#147 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:30 pm

2H tank "guards" are more commonly known as corpses
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/75) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Akilinus
Posts: 355

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#148 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:41 pm

I did not know to what extent it effected snb tanks. Thanks Qep for pointing that out.

Which makes it even more strange that these "real tanks use snb!!!!" people are defending the change since its also effecting them in a negative way.
Kkomrade 80 Zealot Akilinuz 80 Chosen
Kkomrades 80 Black Guard Sauer 80 Squig herder

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DiMakss
Posts: 93

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#149 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:56 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:30 pm
2H tank "guards" are more commonly known as corpses
snb guards are more commonly known as guard-bots or usless slots (for ranked and common sc, for example)

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detrap
Posts: 269
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#150 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:58 pm

ashton007 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:27 pm
Any amount of damage u gain for going 2h does not warrant this kind of guard nerf. That’s your main job as a tank, 2 handed or not. And again this game is supposed to be balanced around warband play and they just gutted 2h further. You aren’t doing enough aoe/St damage with a 2h to warrant the guard nerf. If avoidance was really too **** high for 2h tanks then they should just let guard check for toughness and at least let us mitigate it. At this point no one wants a 2h in their wb
You mean players that may not know the usefulness of 2h tanks don't want them in their warband.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

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