2h Tank guard

[DiMakss]

You mean players that may not know the usefulness of 2h tanks don't want them in their warband.

Сrimson Laugh

[ashton007]

Any amount of damage u gain for going 2h does not warrant this kind of guard nerf. That’s your main job as a tank, 2 handed or not. And again this game is supposed to be balanced around warband play and they just gutted 2h further. You aren’t doing enough aoe/St damage with a 2h to warrant the guard nerf. If avoidance was really too **** high for 2h tanks then they should just let guard check for toughness and at least let us mitigate it. At this point no one wants a 2h in their wb

You mean players that may not know the usefulness of 2h tanks don't want them in their warband.

The only useful 2h tank for wb on destro is a BG... The rest were already suboptimal and now even more so.
If you really trying to tell me BG did too much damage with a 2h that it needed to be nerfed so defensively that it can only do its job by making 0 mistakes, then you're a sheep. only shooting stars break the mold I guess.

[Duukar]

They either need to add more dodge disrupt to gear(at no penalty to current stats) or revert these changes.

Melting as a tank ain't fun. Even if I am holding a 2H. Its a bit much.

Vanq/Bloodlord/warlord are all good options right now along with epic quest 2h or sentinel 2h. If you have trouble with positioning, stack toughness as much as possible and futile strikes. Easy.

Thanks for the tips.. I mean jeez, I also need some help getting my pants on in the am..

Counter productive and not helpful.. 2H has suffered from a change that was an over tweak as usual..

It's too hard to find useable gear with dodge/disrupt.. period.. Ok I know there are a few items and RAs..

[detrap]

Any amount of damage u gain for going 2h does not warrant this kind of guard nerf. That’s your main job as a tank, 2 handed or not. And again this game is supposed to be balanced around warband play and they just gutted 2h further. You aren’t doing enough aoe/St damage with a 2h to warrant the guard nerf. If avoidance was really too **** high for 2h tanks then they should just let guard check for toughness and at least let us mitigate it. At this point no one wants a 2h in their wb

You mean players that may not know the usefulness of 2h tanks don't want them in their warband.

The only useful 2h tank for wb on destro is a BG... The rest were already suboptimal and now even more so.
If you really trying to tell me BG did too much damage with a 2h that it needed to be nerfed so defensively that it can only do its job by making 0 mistakes, then you're a sheep. only shooting stars break the mold I guess.

2H BG's bring the offensive utility and extra dps if they want to be in squishy gear. BO's and Chosen's easily bring more offensive burst damage. BO's can hit targets for over 2k and Chosen's 'pre-spirit damage tactic nerf', were easily doing 1.1k sometimes 2k depending on the target as well. Should a tank with a build to do that much burst be allowed to survive just as well as a snb tank in terms of guard damage?

[Ysaran]

You mean players that may not know the usefulness of 2h tanks don't want them in their warband.

The only useful 2h tank for wb on destro is a BG... The rest were already suboptimal and now even more so.
If you really trying to tell me BG did too much damage with a 2h that it needed to be nerfed so defensively that it can only do its job by making 0 mistakes, then you're a sheep. only shooting stars break the mold I guess.

2H BG's bring the offensive utility and extra dps if they want to be in squishy gear. BO's and Chosen's easily bring more offensive burst damage. BO's can hit targets for over 2k and Chosen's 'pre-spirit damage tactic nerf', were easily doing 1.1k sometimes 2k depending on the target as well. Should a tank with a build to do that much burst be allowed to survive just as well as a snb tank in terms of guard damage?

Yes, because then they lack in other utility skills that are locked behinde as shield. Also, they suffer in greater way from AoE pressure due to lacking a shield. Jeez, how many ppl have to tell you

[Stazak]

This post doesn't make much sense, you go 2h to do more damage yet you want the survivability closer to a snb tank? There was reasons for these changes. If you want to play a 2h support role with survivability, go vanq for defense bonus and sentinel weapon or epic quest weapon. Or play an sm. It's not fair that 2h tanks are just as hard to kill as snb tanks.

If you also want more survivability as a 2h have more snb tanks in the warband using htl?

It was a great change and better for the game overall!

2h tanks ARE NOT as hard to kill as SnB and that is not a problem this thread is about. The thread is about guard, the essential mechanic of ALL tanks being nerfed for some of them with little reason. 2h tanks are less tanky with or without the change, you are ALWAYS sacrificing survivability for damage and I do not see a reason for this change, other than railroading the gameplay, which I am against. And I believe any classs would be against this, why else would sh want their ranged spec? Why else would shamans want dps spec?

[sharpblader]

Spoiler:

Never said all tanks being tankier. I said tanks can be equal to or better at taking guard damage with a 2h build before the changes. Any tank that can PvE as a 2h for example could get away with it in warband vs warband fights. Examples are SM/Chosen/BG/IB. Any tank that can get high amounts of parry was getting away with doing a lot more damage than a snb tank whilst surviving just as well, because in city fights for example, tanks are targeted last regardless they are 2h or snb.

The more you parry the guard damage, the less the healers need to heal you and they can focus heal/morale the dps you are guarding. With the new changes, 2h tanks will also put a strain on their healers because of the increased amount of guard damage they are now receiving.

Don't know how you think I'm speaking theoretically when I've explained in detail the over powered state parry was for mitigating guard damage before.

Hope that makes sense.

Read your first post on this thread.

1. You talk about the change being justified as 2h was being more tanky than SnB while doing more damage as a whole.

2. Then you base this entire logic on the claim that 2h was guarding more damage than SnB, while ignoring the fact that guard is only one source of damage.

3. For evidence to substantiate your claims, you're citing only one tank out of six (others vaguely). Also, for evidence you're citing avoidance procs from gear which does not have 100% uptime.

Hence, I conclude you're speaking theoretically without much personal experience. Also because it seems you're avoiding my question on what 2h tanks you're playing and at what rr to speak with such authority on your claims.

Once again, I'm arguing against your claims, not to revert the guard changes for I agree with them.

I'm trying not to be condescending but genuinely want to understand where you're coming from
because it just seems you're arguing for the sake argument.

1. You talk about the change being justified as 2h was being more tanky than SnB while doing more damage as a whole.

I said tanks can be equal to or better at taking guard damage with a 2h build before the changes.

SM can be better than most snb tanks at eating guard damage. Any other tank class that could buff its own parry was capable of being just as hard to kill via guard damage as snb tanks.

2. Then you base this entire logic on the claim that 2h was guarding more damage than SnB, while ignoring the fact that guard is only one source of damage.

Any tank that can get high amounts of parry was getting away with doing a lot more damage than a snb tank whilst surviving just as well, because in city fights for example, tanks are targeted last regardless they are 2h or snb.

3. For evidence to substantiate your claims, you're citing only one tank out of six (others vaguely). Also, for evidence you're citing avoidance procs from gear which does not have 100% uptime.

Examples are SM/Chosen/BG/IB. Any tank that can get high amounts of parry. I'm also taking into consideration that tanks also need to use abilities to increase their block rate. SM was used because it's a clear example.

Hence, I conclude you're speaking theoretically without much personal experience. Also because it seems you're avoiding my question on what 2h tanks you're playing and at what rr to speak with such authority on your claims.

Please ask in game how much parry each tank can stack, being high renown rank doesn't necessarily mean someone's words hold much weight, which looks like the case throughout this thread. I'm still learning new things every few weeks about the classes I play.

If you have 2h tanks that are melting to guard damage, ask for help. If the response is from someone salty about the changes, ask someone who actually is doing just fine with it.

Never said high renown means your word holds more weight. But your claims warrant an investigation into your 'qualifications'.

I'm just questioning your reluctance to disclose what 2h tanks you play and at what RR.

True apples to apples comparison for anything can be made at the highest gear possible vs the highest gear possible (assuming skill is same).

Again, not asking the above to discredit you as a player but your claims. If I know you play at that level I know your opinion is personal NOT hearsay from what you ask others and your own theory.

Why do I want to discredit your claims? Because you make it seem like 2h was so powerful at guarding that SnB was completely obsolete. If that was true, no organized wb would take a SnB chosen, IB, BG, or SM.

If SM was so OP as a champ guard the problem lies with SM avoidance. NOT the entire system of how guard works.

[detrap]

This post doesn't make much sense, you go 2h to do more damage yet you want the survivability closer to a snb tank? There was reasons for these changes. If you want to play a 2h support role with survivability, go vanq for defense bonus and sentinel weapon or epic quest weapon. Or play an sm. It's not fair that 2h tanks are just as hard to kill as snb tanks.

If you also want more survivability as a 2h have more snb tanks in the warband using htl?

It was a great change and better for the game overall!

2h tanks ARE NOT as hard to kill as SnB and that is not a problem this thread is about. The thread is about guard, the essential mechanic of ALL tanks being nerfed for some of them with little reason. 2h tanks are less tanky with or without the change, you are ALWAYS sacrificing survivability for damage and I do not see a reason for this change, other than railroading the gameplay, which I am against. And I believe any classs would be against this, why else would sh want their ranged spec? Why else would shamans want dps spec?

They were harder to kill via guard damage in cities and the issue is about 2h, guard and guard damage changes, which is for the better now anyways. You didn't need to sacrifice as much as before. You didn't need to spend renown points in dodge/disrupt for example.

[detrap]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Read your first post on this thread.

1. You talk about the change being justified as 2h was being more tanky than SnB while doing more damage as a whole.

2. Then you base this entire logic on the claim that 2h was guarding more damage than SnB, while ignoring the fact that guard is only one source of damage.

3. For evidence to substantiate your claims, you're citing only one tank out of six (others vaguely). Also, for evidence you're citing avoidance procs from gear which does not have 100% uptime.

Hence, I conclude you're speaking theoretically without much personal experience. Also because it seems you're avoiding my question on what 2h tanks you're playing and at what rr to speak with such authority on your claims.

Once again, I'm arguing against your claims, not to revert the guard changes for I agree with them.

I'm trying not to be condescending but genuinely want to understand where you're coming from
because it just seems you're arguing for the sake argument.

1. You talk about the change being justified as 2h was being more tanky than SnB while doing more damage as a whole.

I said tanks can be equal to or better at taking guard damage with a 2h build before the changes.

SM can be better than most snb tanks at eating guard damage. Any other tank class that could buff its own parry was capable of being just as hard to kill via guard damage as snb tanks.

2. Then you base this entire logic on the claim that 2h was guarding more damage than SnB, while ignoring the fact that guard is only one source of damage.

Any tank that can get high amounts of parry was getting away with doing a lot more damage than a snb tank whilst surviving just as well, because in city fights for example, tanks are targeted last regardless they are 2h or snb.

3. For evidence to substantiate your claims, you're citing only one tank out of six (others vaguely). Also, for evidence you're citing avoidance procs from gear which does not have 100% uptime.

Examples are SM/Chosen/BG/IB. Any tank that can get high amounts of parry. I'm also taking into consideration that tanks also need to use abilities to increase their block rate. SM was used because it's a clear example.

Hence, I conclude you're speaking theoretically without much personal experience. Also because it seems you're avoiding my question on what 2h tanks you're playing and at what rr to speak with such authority on your claims.

Please ask in game how much parry each tank can stack, being high renown rank doesn't necessarily mean someone's words hold much weight, which looks like the case throughout this thread. I'm still learning new things every few weeks about the classes I play.

If you have 2h tanks that are melting to guard damage, ask for help. If the response is from someone salty about the changes, ask someone who actually is doing just fine with it.

Never said high renown means your word holds more weight. But your claims warrant an investigation into your 'qualifications'.

I'm just questioning your reluctance to disclose what 2h tanks you play and at what RR.

True apples to apples comparison for anything can be made at the highest gear possible vs the highest gear possible (assuming skill is same).

Again, not asking the above to discredit you as a player but your claims. If I know you play at that level I know your opinion is personal NOT hearsay from what you ask others and your own theory.

Why do I want to discredit your claims? Because you make it seem like 2h was so powerful at guarding that SnB was completely obsolete. If that was true, no organized wb would take a SnB chosen, IB, BG, or SM.

If SM was so OP as a champ guard the problem lies with SM avoidance. NOT the entire system of how guard works.

Because you make it seem like 2h was so powerful at guarding that SnB was completely obsolete. If that was true, no organized wb would take a SnB chosen, IB, BG, or SM.

If SM was so OP as a champ guard the problem lies with SM avoidance. NOT the entire system of how guard works.

It was a lot more powerful before than it is now obviously. The 2H SM wasn't OP with guard, it is just the equivalent of the BO block channel. The BO variant is better, but balanced out because they have to spec for it and it gets a movement speed penalty. I used the SM as a clear example seeing that they can channel 100% parry on demand.

[detrap]

The only useful 2h tank for wb on destro is a BG... The rest were already suboptimal and now even more so.
If you really trying to tell me BG did too much damage with a 2h that it needed to be nerfed so defensively that it can only do its job by making 0 mistakes, then you're a sheep. only shooting stars break the mold I guess.

2H BG's bring the offensive utility and extra dps if they want to be in squishy gear. BO's and Chosen's easily bring more offensive burst damage. BO's can hit targets for over 2k and Chosen's 'pre-spirit damage tactic nerf', were easily doing 1.1k sometimes 2k depending on the target as well. Should a tank with a build to do that much burst be allowed to survive just as well as a snb tank in terms of guard damage?

Yes, because then they lack in other utility skills that are locked behinde as shield. Also, they suffer in greater way from AoE pressure due to lacking a shield. Jeez, how many ppl have to tell you

The topic is about 2H and guard changes. Annnnd like I keep saying before the patch you were just as alive as the snb tanks in the warband in cities if you had high enough parry. AoE is not always an issue if you have good positioning.