2h Tank guard

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Sulorie
Posts: 5265

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#161 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 am

Ysaran wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:40 am
detrap wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:05 am


Sets like Bloodlord gives 10%, vanq 7%, warlord has chance to detaunt attacker and the epic quest weapon and sentinel weapon have 10%. The weapon and armour defensive bonus procs stack.
I making my way through that gear, but I didn't know they staked. Glad to know
You are not aware that it stacks, because it does not stack. Both are skills, even if having different names and slightly different effect, only the highest value of each individual stat increase counts.

@detrap: That both show up in your buffbar doesn't matter. You have to test it with .getstats to verify it but you don't have to, I have already done it.
Dying is no option.

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Rapzel
Posts: 202

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#162 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:48 pm

detrap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:12 am
ashton007 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:14 pm
detrap wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:58 pm


You mean players that may not know the usefulness of 2h tanks don't want them in their warband.
The only useful 2h tank for wb on destro is a BG... The rest were already suboptimal and now even more so.
If you really trying to tell me BG did too much damage with a 2h that it needed to be nerfed so defensively that it can only do its job by making 0 mistakes, then you're a sheep. only shooting stars break the mold I guess.
2H BG's bring the offensive utility and extra dps if they want to be in squishy gear. BO's and Chosen's easily bring more offensive burst damage. BO's can hit targets for over 2k and Chosen's 'pre-spirit damage tactic nerf', were easily doing 1.1k sometimes 2k depending on the target as well. Should a tank with a build to do that much burst be allowed to survive just as well as a snb tank in terms of guard damage?
LUL WUT? I have a bis chosen, even with bloodlord weapon you don't reach even close to 2k without double damage buff on a real target. You hit for about 1.8k with focused offense on the dummies with 0 armor and resistance on your auto attacks (biggest damage dealing ability without mitigation). If you look at ANY ranked game with a 2H Chosen in it all other 2h except KotBS do more damage even though chosen does this "super spirit damage".
Even if you slot full DPS and go full crit you don't reach far above 400 DPS on constructs as chosen with 2h. Compare that with most DPS that hit over 1k dps.
The only times you reach somewhat high numbers is when you spec full dread with rending blade and chopp fasta and waaagh, but ANY aoe build would do a lot of damage with that setup and other tanks would still probably outdps the chosen.
Instead a chosen sits at around 300 DPS 2k highest 3 sec burst with a GROUP oriented spec.
Tanks have half of the DPS of a proper DPS, but double survivability instead, if tanks where as OP as you make them out to be people would run 4/0/2 yet people do not, not even iconic runs this.

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Ysaran
Posts: 1085

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#163 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:53 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 am
Ysaran wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:40 am
detrap wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:05 am


Sets like Bloodlord gives 10%, vanq 7%, warlord has chance to detaunt attacker and the epic quest weapon and sentinel weapon have 10%. The weapon and armour defensive bonus procs stack.
I making my way through that gear, but I didn't know they staked. Glad to know
You are not aware that it stacks, because it does not stack. Both are skills, even if having different names and slightly different effect, only the highest value of each individual stat increase counts.

@detrap: That both show up in your buffbar doesn't matter. You have to test it with .getstats to verify it but you don't have to, I have already done it.
oh ok. I was quite sure that he was wrong. But since I don't have all the gear I couldn't prove it. I know the general rule for stacking and it seemed very strange that those two procs were stacking.
NOCTURNE
Zputakatarro-Choppa rr83
Zputadenti-Shaman rr77
Ysaran-Blackguard rr60

and then WP, AM, IB, Slayer and SH

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detrap
Posts: 264
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#164 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:01 pm

Rapzel wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:48 pm
detrap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:12 am
ashton007 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:14 pm


The only useful 2h tank for wb on destro is a BG... The rest were already suboptimal and now even more so.
If you really trying to tell me BG did too much damage with a 2h that it needed to be nerfed so defensively that it can only do its job by making 0 mistakes, then you're a sheep. only shooting stars break the mold I guess.
2H BG's bring the offensive utility and extra dps if they want to be in squishy gear. BO's and Chosen's easily bring more offensive burst damage. BO's can hit targets for over 2k and Chosen's 'pre-spirit damage tactic nerf', were easily doing 1.1k sometimes 2k depending on the target as well. Should a tank with a build to do that much burst be allowed to survive just as well as a snb tank in terms of guard damage?
LUL WUT? I have a bis chosen, even with bloodlord weapon you don't reach even close to 2k without double damage buff on a real target. You hit for about 1.8k with focused offense on the dummies with 0 armor and resistance on your auto attacks (biggest damage dealing ability without mitigation). If you look at ANY ranked game with a 2H Chosen in it all other 2h except KotBS do more damage even though chosen does this "super spirit damage".
Even if you slot full DPS and go full crit you don't reach far above 400 DPS on constructs as chosen with 2h. Compare that with most DPS that hit over 1k dps.
The only times you reach somewhat high numbers is when you spec full dread with rending blade and chopp fasta and waaagh, but ANY aoe build would do a lot of damage with that setup and other tanks would still probably outdps the chosen.
Instead a chosen sits at around 300 DPS 2k highest 3 sec burst with a GROUP oriented spec.
Tanks have half of the DPS of a proper DPS, but double survivability instead, if tanks where as OP as you make them out to be people would run 4/0/2 yet people do not, not even iconic runs this.
I can pm you the combat log if you like. "2k highest 3 seconds burst"...So you can see why this is one of the reasons the guard changes came about. Never said tanks were OP and made them out to be OP, please read the past comments. I'll repeat it again, 2h tanks could easily be the last one standing along with snb tanks in city warbands, and have the ability to be more aggressive with less of a penalty to their survivability from guard damage if they stacked parry.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

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detrap
Posts: 264
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#165 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:44 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 am
Ysaran wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:40 am
detrap wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:05 am


Sets like Bloodlord gives 10%, vanq 7%, warlord has chance to detaunt attacker and the epic quest weapon and sentinel weapon have 10%. The weapon and armour defensive bonus procs stack.
I making my way through that gear, but I didn't know they staked. Glad to know
You are not aware that it stacks, because it does not stack. Both are skills, even if having different names and slightly different effect, only the highest value of each individual stat increase counts.

@detrap: That both show up in your buffbar doesn't matter. You have to test it with .getstats to verify it but you don't have to, I have already done it.
Confirmed Vanq bonus and Sent 2h stacks, one is on hit and one is on defend, if bloodlord is the same as the sent 2h then it means you just have more of a chance for it to proc. Ty for checking.

No proc: https://imgur.com/6itj47c

Reactionary Proc: https://imgur.com/9jctt1q

Active Defenses Proc Stacking: https://imgur.com/GNX1ntr
Last edited by detrap on Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

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detrap
Posts: 264
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Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#166 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:49 pm

Ysaran wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:53 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 am
Ysaran wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:40 am


I making my way through that gear, but I didn't know they staked. Glad to know
You are not aware that it stacks, because it does not stack. Both are skills, even if having different names and slightly different effect, only the highest value of each individual stat increase counts.

@detrap: That both show up in your buffbar doesn't matter. You have to test it with .getstats to verify it but you don't have to, I have already done it.
oh ok. I was quite sure that he was wrong. But since I don't have all the gear I couldn't prove it. I know the general rule for stacking and it seemed very strange that those two procs were stacking.
Confirmed Vanq and the 2H defensive proc stacks.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

hellc95
Posts: 11

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#167 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:00 pm

detrap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:49 pm
Ysaran wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:53 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 am


You are not aware that it stacks, because it does not stack. Both are skills, even if having different names and slightly different effect, only the highest value of each individual stat increase counts.

@detrap: That both show up in your buffbar doesn't matter. You have to test it with .getstats to verify it but you don't have to, I have already done it.
oh ok. I was quite sure that he was wrong. But since I don't have all the gear I couldn't prove it. I know the general rule for stacking and it seemed very strange that those two procs were stacking.
Confirmed Vanq and the 2H defensive proc stacks.
They don't. Even if your charcter sheet says they do, on .getstat they don't. Says a lot about your insight about game mechanics.
Angheria - Kobs
Raddawi - IB
Angheris - Chosen
Arkaom - Marauder

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Ysaran
Posts: 1085

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#168 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:03 pm

detrap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:44 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 am
Ysaran wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:40 am


I making my way through that gear, but I didn't know they staked. Glad to know
You are not aware that it stacks, because it does not stack. Both are skills, even if having different names and slightly different effect, only the highest value of each individual stat increase counts.

@detrap: That both show up in your buffbar doesn't matter. You have to test it with .getstats to verify it but you don't have to, I have already done it.
Confirmed Vanq bonus and Sent 2h stacks, one is on hit and one is on defend, if bloodlord is the same as the sent 2h then it means you just have more of a chance for it to proc. Ty for checking.
What? no, listen, if you have 2 procs with the same name, their chance of proccing don't add up.
Can you provide a screen of the two procs stacking? The fact that one is on hit and another on defend means nothing.
Generally speaking, if one give 7% avoidance and the other 10% you will not have +17%, you will always have +10%. Althought, having one on hit and one on defense grants you more chance to have avoidences incresed by either 7% or 10%.
NOCTURNE
Zputakatarro-Choppa rr83
Zputadenti-Shaman rr77
Ysaran-Blackguard rr60

and then WP, AM, IB, Slayer and SH

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hellc95
Posts: 11

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#169 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:05 pm

Ysaran wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:03 pm
detrap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:44 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 am


You are not aware that it stacks, because it does not stack. Both are skills, even if having different names and slightly different effect, only the highest value of each individual stat increase counts.

@detrap: That both show up in your buffbar doesn't matter. You have to test it with .getstats to verify it but you don't have to, I have already done it.
Confirmed Vanq bonus and Sent 2h stacks, one is on hit and one is on defend, if bloodlord is the same as the sent 2h then it means you just have more of a chance for it to proc. Ty for checking.
What? no, listen, if you have 2 procs with the same name, their chance of proccing don't add up.
Can you provide a screen of the two procs stacking? The fact that one is on hit and another on defend means nothing.
Generally speaking, if one give 7% avoidance and the other 10% you will not have +17%, you will always have +10%. Althought, having one on hit and one on defense grants you more chance to have avoidences incresed by either 7% or 10%.
He says those two stacks cause on the character screen they do, but I assume that' a visual bug since .getstat and the general rule of buff stacking in the code do not match what you see in the character panel.
Angheria - Kobs
Raddawi - IB
Angheris - Chosen
Arkaom - Marauder

User avatar
Ysaran
Posts: 1085

Re: 2h Tank guard

Post#170 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:09 pm

hellc95 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:05 pm
Ysaran wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:03 pm
detrap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:44 pm


Confirmed Vanq bonus and Sent 2h stacks, one is on hit and one is on defend, if bloodlord is the same as the sent 2h then it means you just have more of a chance for it to proc. Ty for checking.
What? no, listen, if you have 2 procs with the same name, their chance of proccing don't add up.
Can you provide a screen of the two procs stacking? The fact that one is on hit and another on defend means nothing.
Generally speaking, if one give 7% avoidance and the other 10% you will not have +17%, you will always have +10%. Althought, having one on hit and one on defense grants you more chance to have avoidences incresed by either 7% or 10%.
He says those two stacks cause on the character screen they do, but I assume that' a visual bug since .getstat and the general rule of buff stacking in the code do not match what you see in the character panel.
Yes, I know. That's why I want a SS
NOCTURNE
Zputakatarro-Choppa rr83
Zputadenti-Shaman rr77
Ysaran-Blackguard rr60

and then WP, AM, IB, Slayer and SH

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