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[SH] Ranged knock down has to go

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Tankbeardz
Posts: 616

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#171 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:34 pm

NSKaneda wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:26 pm
Tankbeardz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:18 pm
NSKaneda wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:58 pm
Spoiler:


1.15 sec, sorry, my perception of time is not that acute.

Difference is SH Big Shooting tree keeps you rooted in place for way too long. Ever since run away the tactic nerf you cannot "catch" a dot and have speed buff to relocate. Quick shooting is all 65ft (80 buffed) - dots, debuffs, burst. SWs Skirmisher is 65ft for aoe and 100ft for ST.
SWs Scout path is also quicker than Big Shooting - poison arrer/fester, plink/eagle eye and armour debuff are the same but Big shootin' has that reworked 3s explodin arrer knock back that just extends rotation beyond reasonable time in battlefield situations (works great for stationary sieges though). A bit of a wasted skill slot (kinda like poison arrer in quick shooting build, highly situational but too long to make it's way to standard rotation).

A gobbo that stands still for more that 2 seconds is a dead gobbo more often than not. So you kite and I guess, to quote your words, "then realize you are doing a disservice to everybody doing it, and stop".
Spoiler:
Quick Shootin vs Skirm
Not to mention the new cooldown on Yer Bleedin which makes it an unreliable dot as well as making the heal debuff even more unreliable since 2 abilities need to not get dodge/blocked. Shrapnel Arrer is no longer a viable way to reliable cast the HD either since the 10s initiative debuff was removed. This means rSW can layer dots (constant damage) and burst while rSH has to rely on direct damage burst for most of it's damage.

BHA spam 3x stack at 100 feet with no cooldown is the clear winner here. Can it be cleansed? Yep...but then you can go right back to stacking your dots. Sure the heal debuff is on 65 ft range but it can also be made undefendable with VoN.

Big Shootin vs Scout
On the topic of the RKD...the initiative debuff is tied to the freakin RKD. Add in Bulleseye for even more crit and add VoN to add a whopping 25% damage to an undefendable Fester...it's not even close.
Sure rSH has more escape tools...but don't tell me that rSW isn't as strong.

SWs are very strong indeed. Like I've written: nerf not. Learn how to hunt them :)
All the whine threads also leave out, or gloss over, these facts:
1. Pet dies in 2 hits and cant be cast on the move
2. Buggy ass pet has to actually be alive and attacking your target to disarm...hell sometimes that doesn't even work right. See point #1.
3. Run Away (ability) is tied to the pet. See point #1.
4. Kaboom isn't a reliable escape tool anymore
5. As mentioned before...who the hell uses the Run Away tactic? Most people didn't use it BEFORE it was nerfed.

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CeeJay89
Posts: 246

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#172 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:38 pm

After playing around as and playing against SH, I think there are a few abilities overperforming, while most of the rest is acceptable.

1) Squig Beast as a Morale 1: this ability simply puts out way too much damage for a Morale 1. I think most would agree with this.

2) Maybe an unpopular opinion, but DWIS is problematic. It may seem inconsequential, but this tactic breaks the class in smallscale. Allowing a 100% uptime heal debuff, which doubles as a decent DoT to further do damage to a player everytime they're healed is too strong. It can be impossible for a single healer to keep one person up from a single DPS, themselves included. The issue with this tactic is it's useless in largescale, but too strong in smallscale. I can confirm as a high RR healer that it is easier for me to keep a squishy SW alive from 2x Choppa and a 2h Chosen who are all in Invader or Sov than it is from a level 35 SH in Annihilator because of this tactic. I've had more difficulty keeping people alive from undergeared SH's than any other DPS class on Destro (except maybe Magus/Sorc bursts).

3) Double finishers - finishers are fine, really, but having two easily accessible is a bit strong.

Other mentions

a) Sharpened Arrers shouldn't apply to every ranged attack. Should be restricted to one tree or the other. SW, WL, Mara, and SH all have access to armor ignoring tactics. However, for some odd reason WL's is restricted to two abilities, SW's is restricted to Skirmish, but Mara and SH applies to all abilities regardless of spec.

b) Tastes Like Chicken - I really don't understand why the class with the greatest CC/escape arsenal in the game needed to have access to a free Officer potion every 60s. This saved my SH from some pretty stupid situations and let me get away with more than it should. 1600 HP is way too high for a baseline ability.

c) Git Em bursts way too hard, but that may be in conjuction with Squig Beast and Squig Frenzy. I've seen Azeyuune run in at a lower defense target with both up at 75% movespeed and literally kill them upon touching them. No, I'm not exaggerating. Coordinated Strike was nerfed for this very reason. Git Em never received the same scaling treatment after mSH got reworked. Git Em should receive the same nerf, with the absurd front loaded burst being sent to something like "Cut Ya!", just as CS front loaded burst was sent to Shatter Limbs.



P.S. ranged knockdown is fine. It's more annoying than anything, because the class already has so many powerful tools. In my opinion, Squig Beast and DWIS are the classes biggest offenders.

noronn
Posts: 36

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#173 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:45 pm

CeeJay89 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:38 pm
I can confirm as a high RR healer that it is easier for me to keep a squishy SW alive from 2x Choppa and a 2h Chosen who are all in Invader or Sov than it is from a level 35 SH in Annihilator because of this tactic.
The people playing this game nowadays, just wow. How can you even think about saying bullshit like this xD

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CeeJay89
Posts: 246

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#174 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:50 pm

noronn wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:45 pm
CeeJay89 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:38 pm
I can confirm as a high RR healer that it is easier for me to keep a squishy SW alive from 2x Choppa and a 2h Chosen who are all in Invader or Sov than it is from a level 35 SH in Annihilator because of this tactic.
The people playing this game nowadays, just wow. How can you even think about saying bullshit like this xD
I don't really care if you believe it. Thanks for your thoughts.

Sundowner
Posts: 384

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#175 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:54 pm

Wait CS and "git em!" are not similar in every way, formula and modificator? and I was wondering how mSH's had so much burst compared to WL without access to armor debuff :mrgreen: :mrgreen: can I find exact formulas regarding scaling somewhere?

Neverever
Posts: 149

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#176 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:26 pm

noronn wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:45 pm
CeeJay89 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:38 pm
I can confirm as a high RR healer that it is easier for me to keep a squishy SW alive from 2x Choppa and a 2h Chosen who are all in Invader or Sov than it is from a level 35 SH in Annihilator because of this tactic.
The people playing this game nowadays, just wow. How can you even think about saying bullshit like this xD


Lol to make it clear he just claimed that a tactic which only grants 340 corp. dmg (that's without the application of resistances btw so usually 180-200 dmg max) every 3 seconds and that's only if the target is healed OP. So don't you dare to expect him to be logical :mrgreen:
Last edited by Neverever on Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gurf
Posts: 520

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#177 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:28 pm

I don't really understand why SH gets Git Em and Squig Frenzy as baseline abilities, a White Lion has to go to the top of the Guardian tree to get anywhere close to that damage boost to its Pet and therefore either loses its armour debuff or best dps burst ability in Cull of the Weak, so has to give up something very good to get it. SH gets it for free, combine with m1 and its gg..... balance

User avatar
CeeJay89
Posts: 246

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#178 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:29 pm

Neverever wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:26 pm
noronn wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:45 pm
CeeJay89 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:38 pm
I can confirm as a high RR healer that it is easier for me to keep a squishy SW alive from 2x Choppa and a 2h Chosen who are all in Invader or Sov than it is from a level 35 SH in Annihilator because of this tactic.
The people playing this game nowadays, just wow. How can you even think about saying bullshit like this xD


Lol to make it clear he just claimed that a tactic which only grants 340 corp. dmg (that's without the application of resistances btw so usually 180-200 dmg max) every 3 seconds and that's only if the target is healed OP. So don't you dare to expect him to be logical :mrgreen:
After reading your array of dysentery posts, I wouldn't expect you to be capable of literacy.

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Neverever
Posts: 149

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#179 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:39 pm

CeeJay89 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:29 pm
Neverever wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:26 pm
noronn wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:45 pm


The people playing this game nowadays, just wow. How can you even think about saying bullshit like this xD


Lol to make it clear he just claimed that a tactic which only grants 340 corp. dmg (that's without the application of resistances btw so usually 180-200 dmg max) every 3 seconds and that's only if the target is healed OP. So don't you dare to expect him to be logical :mrgreen:
After reading your array of dysentery posts, I wouldn't expect you to be capable of literacy.
Lol your reply just reveals whose posts are actually dysenterical dude. You are a hilarious person with a very imaginative world for sure. Now time to keep calm and keep trying to keep your poor SW friend up against 35 lvl SH in your wonderland :lol: . Thanks for the laughs of tonight.

User avatar
CeeJay89
Posts: 246

Re: [SH] Ranged knock down has to go

Post#180 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:54 pm

Neverever wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:39 pm
CeeJay89 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:29 pm
Neverever wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:26 pm




Lol to make it clear he just claimed that a tactic which only grants 340 corp. dmg (that's without the application of resistances btw so usually 180-200 dmg max) every 3 seconds and that's only if the target is healed OP. So don't you dare to expect him to be logical :mrgreen:
After reading your array of dysentery posts, I wouldn't expect you to be capable of literacy.
Lol your reply just reveals whose posts are actually dysenterical dude. You are a hilarious person with a very imaginative world for sure. Now time to keep calm and keep trying to keep your poor SW friend up against 35 lvl SH in your wonderland :lol: . Thanks for the laughs of tonight.
Cool feedback, very insightful. I'll look for your "OrDeR bIaS, oRdEr CrYiNg WoRk" posts when Baby's First Class gets nerfed to a reasonable state like any sane person knows it will. Enjoy it while it lasts.

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