Witch Elf need some Love

[Skoll888]

What nonsense in ROR WH and WE are solo roamers they dont need any tweaking. Lets make every class stupidly op leave well alone. You should be scouting solo roaming and killing backline healers that is when your useful anything else you are a liability to wb or group.

have you ever tried to kill a not completely brain dead backline healer with a WE ? well good luck.
but anyway I did not ask for a dmg buff here, just something to be useful in grp/wb play.
and to say create a other class if you want to play in a wb is pointless, because most of the content is made for groups/warband. but WE/WH have to be
almost useles in it because we have stealth? bs!

[Rapzel]

What nonsense in ROR WH and WE are solo roamers they dont need any tweaking. Lets make every class stupidly op leave well alone. You should be scouting solo roaming and killing backline healers that is when your useful anything else you are a liability to wb or group.

have you ever tried to kill a not completely brain dead backline healer with a WE ? well good luck.
but anyway I did not ask for a dmg buff here, just something to be useful in grp/wb play.
and to say create a other class if you want to play in a wb is pointless, because most of the content is made for groups/warband. but WE/WH have to be
almost useles in it because we have stealth? bs!

Git gud issue, a WE can easily take out a healer (not necessarily kill them in a 1vs1, but with double healdebuff, CC and pressure you can divert heals from enemy dps onto your target) from a fight and cause a lot of panic among the healers. WE is in no need of any type of "love" or buffs, rather the opposite as it overperforms in every other aspect of the game except AoE.

[Krima]

WHs got their grp utility after:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42646

19 pages of work , Its funny that right after the Armor Debuff, not a single complain on that topic

[PlagueMonk]

Sounds interesting, especially Heart Render. Sad their is no real use for it until now.

Tweaking pounce would be amazing.

and I hope this is is a troll thread because WEs can already kill anything but WH and Tanks in 2 secs from stealth. KD > kill, kill, kill > dead

I assume you don't play we? Cause you are wrong. Reality looks like mentioned here.

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=39435#p424140

Did you miss the part about FROM STEALTH? (made it all caps and bold so it's easier to read)

And I don't have to play a WE, just been on the receiving end of this nonsense too many times.

Even in the very thread linked, YOU posted a couple of lines down.....and I quote, "mostly I win against them knocking them down first"

pretty much exactly what I said.......you KD from stealth and it's an "I WIN" button for you.

[Fockewulf8]

I feel a strong urge to respond to this discussion. I'm a moderately new WE (and RoR) player. My WE is R4 RR47 at this time. I posted about this in the Reddit forums but will say this here as I feel very strongly about this... WEs in general, based upon my understanding of the lore, are built wrong AS IS. WEs in WarHammer lore are NOT stealth class fighters. They don't run and sneak around. They walk up to you, stab you in the face, and offer their kill as a sacrifice to Khaine. They are melee DPS frenzy/berserker types who sometimes use poison and brews to help kill enemies. The closest "mirror" in the WH universe, from my understanding, would be the Slayer (another frenzy/berserker type). I feel WEs are in the state they are in because of this simple fact that, from the ground up, we are built WRONG. Trying to put a square peg into a round hole by shaving off the edges, that still leaves gaps.

If you want a dps class that can stealth, scout, and all that other spy $^#@ for Destro make SHADES NOT, WEs.

Here is my suggestion:
1. Remove stealth from WEs (unless you want to add it to a specific tree spec as a bonus utility for doing that skill tree)
2. Boost our natural evasion to all attacks and natural parry chance significantly (and make passive skills support these traits)
3. Have a lower soft armor cap for WE in general (we're 3/4 naked, having high armor makes no sense to me)
3. Build frenzies for each "spec" around traits that fit with the lore (e.g. increased attack speed, reduced ability cool downs, increased damage AND armor pen, increased evasion/dodge/parry for all attacks while frenzied)
5. DO NOT DO AOE SKILLS, we are not a AOE class (not even while frenzied).
6. As someone mentioned in a previous thread, we should be focused on front line melee frenzy DPS, extremely high evasion and parry, armor piercing, very fast attacks, moderately single STRIKE damage (we use daggers not two handers).
7. Add more interrupts, stuns, and disorients to our skill trees.
8. You could easily make the 3 skill trees fit a particular playstyle (which it looks like was the intended goal anyway). Melee brusier/frenzy focused or potion/dot focused or hybrid style
9. Our focus should be sustained single target DPS that builds into frenzy and burst damage if not killed quick enough, while bypassing defenses (physical naturally and magical though potions and brews)

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Witch_Elves
"The Witch Elves drive themselves into an ecstatic fervour during their brutal ceremonies as they rip hearts from chests and fling them into iron braziers, daub runes of Khaine onto their bodies with their victims' blood and decorate the altars of their bloodthirsty master with bones and entrails. They are no less vicious in battle. They are the most cruel of all the Dark Elves, and the most bloodthirsty. They do not carry shields, caring nothing for their own protection, and are armed with sharp swords and long knives whose edges are dipped in venom. Once battle begins, the Witch Elves hurl themselves at their foes, ripping apart their enemies with a storm of poisoned blades. Those foes unfortunate enough to not succumb to their wound are rounded up by the Witch Elves after the battle to serve as gruesome sacrifices"

Make us what we're meant to be... you want stealth? Add Shades (which would be cool in and of itself). This doesn't have to be a WoW knockoff... Let's make it what Warammer Old World deserves by using the lore as a guide for class design. Maybe this is on the delv's radar but as a WE main I really hope it's high on the list.

[Rumpel]

I feel a strong urge to respond to this discussion. I'm a moderately new WE (and RoR) player. My WE is R4 RR47 at this time. I posted about this in the Reddit forums but will say this here as I feel very strongly about this... WEs in general, based upon my understanding of the lore, are built wrong AS IS. WEs in WarHammer lore are NOT stealth class fighters. They don't run and sneak around. They walk up to you, stab you in the face, and offer their kill as a sacrifice to Khaine. They are melee DPS frenzy/berserker types who sometimes use poison and brews to help kill enemies. The closest "mirror" in the WH universe, from my understanding, would be the Slayer (another frenzy/berserker type). I feel WEs are in the state they are in because of this simple fact that, from the ground up, we are built WRONG. Trying to put a square peg into a round hole by shaving off the edges, that still leaves gaps.

If you want a dps class that can stealth, scout, and all that other spy $^#@ for Destro make SHADES NOT, WEs.

Here is my suggestion:
1. Remove stealth from WEs (unless you want to add it to a specific tree spec as a bonus utility for doing that skill tree)
2. Boost our natural evasion to all attacks and natural parry chance significantly (and make passive skills support these traits)
3. Have a lower soft armor cap for WE in general (we're 3/4 naked, having high armor makes no sense to me)
3. Build frenzies for each "spec" around traits that fit with the lore (e.g. increased attack speed, reduced ability cool downs, increased damage AND armor pen, increased evasion/dodge/parry for all attacks while frenzied)
5. DO NOT DO AOE SKILLS, we are not a AOE class (not even while frenzied).
6. As someone mentioned in a previous thread, we should be focused on front line melee frenzy DPS, extremely high evasion and parry, armor piercing, very fast attacks, moderately single STRIKE damage (we use daggers not two handers).
7. Add more interrupts, stuns, and disorients to our skill trees.
8. You could easily make the 3 skill trees fit a particular playstyle (which it looks like was the intended goal anyway). Melee brusier/frenzy focused or potion/dot focused or hybrid style
9. Our focus should be sustained single target DPS that builds into frenzy and burst damage if not killed quick enough, while bypassing defenses (physical naturally and magical though potions and brews)

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Witch_Elves
"The Witch Elves drive themselves into an ecstatic fervour during their brutal ceremonies as they rip hearts from chests and fling them into iron braziers, daub runes of Khaine onto their bodies with their victims' blood and decorate the altars of their bloodthirsty master with bones and entrails. They are no less vicious in battle. They are the most cruel of all the Dark Elves, and the most bloodthirsty. They do not carry shields, caring nothing for their own protection, and are armed with sharp swords and long knives whose edges are dipped in venom. Once battle begins, the Witch Elves hurl themselves at their foes, ripping apart their enemies with a storm of poisoned blades. Those foes unfortunate enough to not succumb to their wound are rounded up by the Witch Elves after the battle to serve as gruesome sacrifices"

Make us what we're meant to be... you want stealth? Add Shades (which would be cool in and of itself). This doesn't have to be a WoW knockoff... Let's make it what Warammer Old World deserves by using the lore as a guide for class design. Maybe this is on the delv's radar but as a WE main I really hope it's high on the list.

There sometimes a we walks around ingame which wears a unic look which looks like shades. Maybe a gm?

https://imgur.com/a/WT14pps

[PlagueMonk]

Spoiler:

I feel a strong urge to respond to this discussion. I'm a moderately new WE (and RoR) player. My WE is R4 RR47 at this time. I posted about this in the Reddit forums but will say this here as I feel very strongly about this... WEs in general, based upon my understanding of the lore, are built wrong AS IS. WEs in WarHammer lore are NOT stealth class fighters. They don't run and sneak around. They walk up to you, stab you in the face, and offer their kill as a sacrifice to Khaine. They are melee DPS frenzy/berserker types who sometimes use poison and brews to help kill enemies. The closest "mirror" in the WH universe, from my understanding, would be the Slayer (another frenzy/berserker type). I feel WEs are in the state they are in because of this simple fact that, from the ground up, we are built WRONG. Trying to put a square peg into a round hole by shaving off the edges, that still leaves gaps.

If you want a dps class that can stealth, scout, and all that other spy $^#@ for Destro make SHADES NOT, WEs.

Here is my suggestion:
1. Remove stealth from WEs (unless you want to add it to a specific tree spec as a bonus utility for doing that skill tree)
2. Boost our natural evasion to all attacks and natural parry chance significantly (and make passive skills support these traits)
3. Have a lower soft armor cap for WE in general (we're 3/4 naked, having high armor makes no sense to me)
3. Build frenzies for each "spec" around traits that fit with the lore (e.g. increased attack speed, reduced ability cool downs, increased damage AND armor pen, increased evasion/dodge/parry for all attacks while frenzied)
5. DO NOT DO AOE SKILLS, we are not a AOE class (not even while frenzied).
6. As someone mentioned in a previous thread, we should be focused on front line melee frenzy DPS, extremely high evasion and parry, armor piercing, very fast attacks, moderately single STRIKE damage (we use daggers not two handers).
7. Add more interrupts, stuns, and disorients to our skill trees.
8. You could easily make the 3 skill trees fit a particular playstyle (which it looks like was the intended goal anyway). Melee brusier/frenzy focused or potion/dot focused or hybrid style
9. Our focus should be sustained single target DPS that builds into frenzy and burst damage if not killed quick enough, while bypassing defenses (physical naturally and magical though potions and brews)

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Witch_Elves
"The Witch Elves drive themselves into an ecstatic fervour during their brutal ceremonies as they rip hearts from chests and fling them into iron braziers, daub runes of Khaine onto their bodies with their victims' blood and decorate the altars of their bloodthirsty master with bones and entrails. They are no less vicious in battle. They are the most cruel of all the Dark Elves, and the most bloodthirsty. They do not carry shields, caring nothing for their own protection, and are armed with sharp swords and long knives whose edges are dipped in venom. Once battle begins, the Witch Elves hurl themselves at their foes, ripping apart their enemies with a storm of poisoned blades. Those foes unfortunate enough to not succumb to their wound are rounded up by the Witch Elves after the battle to serve as gruesome sacrifices"

Make us what we're meant to be... you want stealth? Add Shades (which would be cool in and of itself). This doesn't have to be a WoW knockoff... Let's make it what Warammer Old World deserves by using the lore as a guide for class design. Maybe this is on the delv's radar but as a WE main I really hope it's high on the list.

You are 100% correct in that, based on the lore, WEs should be the Slayer mirror. The only problem is, in terms of game balance and class desires, Mythic needed a mdps/stealth class so WE was the closest thing (not like there was a Greenskin or Chaos match). The DoK is also technically a bastardization of the lore as are things like Greenskins, Dark Elves and Chaos working together, Dwarves riding heliopter things and a host of other changes for the sake of the game.

If you give all that to WEs then you would have to completely rework the WHs as well which I do not see happening anytime soon (or ever)

[wargrimnir]

A familiar and painful history lesson we're quite aware of, but that sort of overhaul is not in the scope of things we can do.

[Zaccar20]

Should give WE Pit of Witchbrew and WH Reign of Burn Away Lies, ranged aoe channeled moves.

I would like to see a helf destro WB, died on some aoe Burn Away Lies at at same time

[Fockewulf8]

A familiar and painful history lesson we're quite aware of, but that sort of overhaul is not in the scope of things we can do.

Oh, I was not aware. I wonder... would offering suggestions on one specific tree be something more in the realm of possibility? I'd love to off my thoughts on the Carnage tree to start with if it'd be worthwhile?