SM Changes

[detrap]

Spoiler:

Detrap, you dont have to speak in every thread where you dont even know why or what you are saying. Like saying EF not stacking with wods and therefore you dont understand why the 4 sec length is an issue, or that you saying "people dont understand the mechanic and are jelly " tells me enough about your current understanding about the game and in general=) Imo Adding to phoenix wing 25 % chance to stun target for 1 sec ignoring immunities and not causing immunities and the proposed aoe pull replacing aoe kb makes perfect sense for 2h tank who originally was supposed to be dps class in warhammer online instead of tank.

Old Phantom's blade bubble proc WHILE attacking or old Heaven's blade resis debuffs WHILE attacking made so much more sense than what these do nowadays. Also changing quick incision to 10 sec spirit dot imo makes alot of sense while changing the deep inc tactic " AA is now spirit dmg " or " when you attack with direct skill your opponent takes " this amount " of spirit dmg cannot be avoided " Ive been thinking about some kind of 2h skill for SM requiring disrupt/dodge/parry and ignores gcd that gives the attacker 3 second debuff and during that 3 second everytime you attack with direct skill (even AA) you do extra dmg. 10 sec cooldown.

And not having aoe kb which would be changed to aoe pull, making redirected force usable with 2h is must=) These changes and SM is starting to be very nice!

Unfortunately the Swordmaster class in this game is a tank class, and already does enough damage as a tank.

You already have blurring shock to help add extra spirit damage on any target that you can also debuff their spirit resistances to 0 if they aren't buffed. Deep incision as far as I'm aware can't even be cleansed so it's already a decent tactic.

Phoenix Wing is good enough for pushing out debuffs and dot damage, only 23 AP too with Adept Movements if you want to spam it.

There could have been plausible reasons to remove the immunity ignoring, 1 second stun SM's had on live. The idea of giving them and the BO (balance reasons) both a rift seems too much. On top of such a change the SM would still have an AoE rift and a AoE morale mega punt.

Quick incision is an hex and can be cleansed, u cant spam pw since is improved stance, u can rotate with bubble and sudden shift but this is kinda clunky, not spammable like BO, resist drop to 0 is when u have no healer no chosen or black orc (pug situation) in top of that adept movement is like the worst tattic for sm. Again like other said, if u dont play this clas a know nothing about that, don't talk, stop it.

Quick incision can be cleansed, the deep incision tactic cannot.

Yes I was referring to that rotation in order to spam PW. It is clunky on the fingers but rewarding to be able to constantly stat steal and dot up the blob.

Yes I did mention if the target's resis is unbuffed you can reduce theirs to 0.

Adept Movements is not the worst, and handy if you dont spec PW and want to spam Wrath of Hoeth or even Morale drain with WW (both become 36/26 AP respectively) or you are being constantly starved of AP, especially when sudden shift is on cooldown and you have to WoH into final stance.

[CytheX]

Spoiler:

Unfortunately the Swordmaster class in this game is a tank class, and already does enough damage as a tank.

You already have blurring shock to help add extra spirit damage on any target that you can also debuff their spirit resistances to 0 if they aren't buffed. Deep incision as far as I'm aware can't even be cleansed so it's already a decent tactic.

Phoenix Wing is good enough for pushing out debuffs and dot damage, only 23 AP too with Adept Movements if you want to spam it.

There could have been plausible reasons to remove the immunity ignoring, 1 second stun SM's had on live. The idea of giving them and the BO (balance reasons) both a rift seems too much. On top of such a change the SM would still have an AoE rift and a AoE morale mega punt.

Quick incision is an hex and can be cleansed, u cant spam pw since is improved stance, u can rotate with bubble and sudden shift but this is kinda clunky, not spammable like BO, resist drop to 0 is when u have no healer no chosen or black orc (pug situation) in top of that adept movement is like the worst tattic for sm. Again like other said, if u dont play this clas a know nothing about that, don't talk, stop it.

Quick incision can be cleansed, the deep incision tactic cannot.

Yes I was referring to that rotation in order to spam PW. It is clunky on the fingers but rewarding to be able to constantly stat steal and dot up the blob.

Yes I did mention if the target's resis is unbuffed you can reduce theirs to 0.

Adept Movements is not the worst, and handy if you dont spec PW and want to spam Wrath of Hoeth or even Morale drain with WW (both become 36/26 AP respectively) or you are being constantly starved of AP, especially when sudden shift is on cooldown and you have to WoH into final stance.

Spam woh, my eyes are bleeding.
Ty for ur amazing idea.

[zulnam]

Quick incision is an hex and can be cleansed, u cant spam pw since is improved stance, u can rotate with bubble and sudden shift but this is kinda clunky, not spammable like BO, resist drop to 0 is when u have no healer no chosen or black orc (pug situation) in top of that adept movement is like the worst tattic for sm. Again like other said, if u dont play this clas a know nothing about that, don't talk, stop it.

Quick incision can be cleansed, the deep incision tactic cannot.

Yes I was referring to that rotation in order to spam PW. It is clunky on the fingers but rewarding to be able to constantly stat steal and dot up the blob.

Yes I did mention if the target's resis is unbuffed you can reduce theirs to 0.

Adept Movements is not the worst, and handy if you dont spec PW and want to spam Wrath of Hoeth or even Morale drain with WW (both become 36/26 AP respectively) or you are being constantly starved of AP, especially when sudden shift is on cooldown and you have to WoH into final stance.

Spam woh, my eyes are bleeding.
Ty for ur amazing idea.

You should read some of his knight suggestions.

SM could use some QoL improvements. Eagle's Flight is a common one asked for (5 seconds is pretty bad, i agree). Some cleaning up of tactics: like others said elf tactics are pretty weak (tbh what isn't when compared to orc tactics?), Poised Attacks is straight out useless due to Discerning Offense.

Thing is, the class is not in a bad spot. The mechanic is clunky, but it doesn't feel broken. SnB SM has good group utility and will always find a spot in warbands; 2h SM has a bit of group utility (party bubble) and pretty good damage thanks to Spirit attacks. At least that should be the theory, since the lack of need for WS is a no brainer. I always wondered why there aren't more SMs on order, seeing as they seem like the easiest tank to do good damage on when you wanna chill in 2H (IB is good too, but you need the gear for it plus a 15 button mouse for all those abilities).

Better Itemisation? Make Sapping Strike worth a damn? Change the way stance tactics work from dmg/defense buff in stance to 5 second buff when reaching perfect stance? (this could work for BO as well since many of them are mirrors).

Think it through, be sensible, then create a post in the Balance Proposals with the changes.

[detrap]

Spoiler:

Quick incision is an hex and can be cleansed, u cant spam pw since is improved stance, u can rotate with bubble and sudden shift but this is kinda clunky, not spammable like BO, resist drop to 0 is when u have no healer no chosen or black orc (pug situation) in top of that adept movement is like the worst tattic for sm. Again like other said, if u dont play this clas a know nothing about that, don't talk, stop it.

Quick incision can be cleansed, the deep incision tactic cannot.

Yes I was referring to that rotation in order to spam PW. It is clunky on the fingers but rewarding to be able to constantly stat steal and dot up the blob.

Yes I did mention if the target's resis is unbuffed you can reduce theirs to 0.

Adept Movements is not the worst, and handy if you dont spec PW and want to spam Wrath of Hoeth or even Morale drain with WW (both become 36/26 AP respectively) or you are being constantly starved of AP, especially when sudden shift is on cooldown and you have to WoH into final stance.

Spam woh, my eyes are bleeding.
Ty for ur amazing idea.

Yeh its the same concept like snb BO's doing big swing with stat steal.

[HarkonenTimber]

The only dot that triggers from AoE is Potent Enchantments (physical, doesn't scale). CoT and CI only proc from direct single target damage abilities. At least EA scales (though poorly) with strength.

Like Cythe said there is almost no situation where even a 15 point Hoeth tree invested WoH strips away all spirit debuff, it is the same for the AM debuff which shares the same tooltip values. It’s a pug situation and should not be taken into account at all from a balance perspective.

I do agree lengthening Eagle's Flight from 5 seconds to 8 seconds is not really needed. Any SM that uses Eagle's Flight when he is not pressured (be it directly or through guard damage) should not be taken seriously anyway. Bringing in the effect of WoDS is not fair, EF remains active when interrupted or knocked down, WoDS does not once you are interrupted or knocked down.

Playing with Sudden Shift and PoH is a thing you learn to cope by playing the class, it is not as clunky as some people make it out to be.

But this is an overall worrying development. People want to make classes braindead (like where the BO is atm); why change WW to be like black orc braindead form when you could bring the BO CD decreaser to SM level of complexity (need target to hit, silence component, make a decision which target to use the ability on whilst in the engagement).

Whirley Geyser is a meme btw as M4 with its 800 damage and then an AOE knockback that grants immunity yet again (or is ignored since everybody already has immunities, let alone that order never really gets the opportunity to get M4 on a tank anyway).

[detrap]

Spoiler:

Quick incision can be cleansed, the deep incision tactic cannot.

Yes I was referring to that rotation in order to spam PW. It is clunky on the fingers but rewarding to be able to constantly stat steal and dot up the blob.

Yes I did mention if the target's resis is unbuffed you can reduce theirs to 0.

Adept Movements is not the worst, and handy if you dont spec PW and want to spam Wrath of Hoeth or even Morale drain with WW (both become 36/26 AP respectively) or you are being constantly starved of AP, especially when sudden shift is on cooldown and you have to WoH into final stance.

Spam woh, my eyes are bleeding.
Ty for ur amazing idea.

You should read some of his knight suggestions.

SM could use some QoL improvements. Eagle's Flight is a common one asked for (5 seconds is pretty bad, i agree). Some cleaning up of tactics: like others said elf tactics are pretty weak (tbh what isn't when compared to orc tactics?), Poised Attacks is straight out useless due to Discerning Offense.

Thing is, the class is not in a bad spot. The mechanic is clunky, but it doesn't feel broken. SnB SM has good group utility and will always find a spot in warbands; 2h SM has a bit of group utility (party bubble) and pretty good damage thanks to Spirit attacks. At least that should be the theory, since the lack of need for WS is a no brainer. I always wondered why there aren't more SMs on order, seeing as they seem like the easiest tank to do good damage on when you wanna chill in 2H (IB is good too, but you need the gear for it plus a 15 button mouse for all those abilities).

Better Itemisation? Make Sapping Strike worth a damn? Change the way stance tactics work from dmg/defense buff in stance to 5 second buff when reaching perfect stance? (this could work for BO as well since many of them are mirrors).

Think it through, be sensible, then create a post in the Balance Proposals with the changes.

Make Sapping Strike worth a damn?

The drain is pretty weak on it's own and isn't worth trying to spam even with WW

[detrap]

Whirley Geyser is a meme btw as M4 with its 800 damage and then an AOE knockback that grants immunity yet again (or is ignored since everybody already has immunities, let alone that order never really gets the opportunity to get M4 on a tank anyway).

1200 damage and it's great on a fort push when you have block channeling BO's with You Wot up, body blocking postern. Also good when knocking off a group of casters and healers when defending a fort, using the morale punt then followed by the normal AoE punt is considerable amount of disruptive cc in short space/timeframe. The fact you are a tank doing it means it's easier to drop it all and get back into position whereas another class usually dies.