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SM Changes

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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Aethilmar
Posts: 636

Re: SM Changes

Post#41 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:56 am

BluIzLucky wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:06 am It's a great conversation, good to see some love for SM.

Yes, Warlord stats and 3-4p bonus could use a face lift as i agreed on that thread ;)

And.. Wings of Heaven got a massive buff now that it can be used with Bellow.

1) I'm sure both bo and Ib (with full grudge) could out dps sm on some targets.. Tho i suspect they would need to sacrifice more survival than SM to do so.
2) Good thing we only need Wods when focused.. Which is rare since nobody wants to target someone with 70-100 avoidance. Make Calming wind apply to dodge as well to make us 100% if you want more.
3) call it what you want.. And again devs please 2x heal sm for the lulz.. You can passively reduce fluff dps pressure on half the wb.
4) Just my experience.. Looking at city scoreboard SM>IB>Kotbs. Rt still gives 10-20% on demand with no cd.. With POH SM is best (order) group proc.. not sure what makes kotbs better for wb, please let me know. Same for IB, SM as best avoidance and self absorb, that barely any guard dmg is registered.
5) sure, stagger is OP and should be moved to 13p.. OR move WW to 9p.. 25% heal reduction on 1-2 healers = fluff desperation?
6) nobody playing tank busta.. Just reminding you that there's two core tactics and 10% from 2h, if you are struggling to land WW.

My point is.. (and happy to proven wrong) SM is as good as or better in certain aspects, and it seems like they are being overlooked/ignored when it comes to buffs.

And totally agree, I want to see a change towards making SM primarily 2H..
Move WW to 9p
Unlock CA and RF for 2h.
Make WoDs a smaller area of HtL but same effect
Give 2h SM 10% base parry or make PD 10/20% parry.
.
Not as much about being wrong as we have different opinions on the topic. It's all good. :)

But, yes, as another general objective I would love to see is primary tanking mode for SM is as a 2-hander with shield being a reasonable alternative. I may be just living far in the past but that was always the main aesthetic draw of the SM (like 2-hander is the main aesthetic draw of a BG).

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: SM Changes

Post#42 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:10 am

Oglaf wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:45 am
normanis wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:22 am ( + best ingame m2 300% incoming heals basicly healer heal u full in sec good for 2h)
The problem is that you're competing with D. Bellow, an even better M2. ;)
300% income healz is not bad morale , byt u put morales what leader say offc. outside it, its best)
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

Strakar
Posts: 144

Re: SM Changes

Post#43 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:00 pm

Since SM was pretty unanimously voted worst defensive tank in that other thread, would love to see more discussion on ideas suggested.

In seems like it always boils down to SM can do the most dps as a tank, which is still trivial compared to 6 other classes whose actual role is DPS, and WODS is the crutch against any 2h changes.

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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: SM Changes

Post#44 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:43 pm

DoomedDragon wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:50 pm If you want to "fix" order frontlines, then look to improve the situation and "fun" aspects for order tanks.
100% agree with this, especially when it comes to SM and Knight.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

Mystry
Suspended
Posts: 445

Re: SM Changes

Post#45 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:49 pm

The biggest thing that has to happen is Whispering Winds not requiring a target and ideally not requiring a stance. Just make it a copy of BO's.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: SM Changes

Post#46 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 pm

Bleh just remove all morale pumps/drains and all cooldown reduction abilities as well. Single target cooldown increasers + Single target cast time increases would be much more fun. Interrupts would become more powerfull with 1.5 second cast time increaser like skills (on instant cast/melee abilities as well.

On SM. Eagles flight should be 8 second long at least. Add dodge / disrupt to perfect defenses.
Redicerted force add parry or block requirement and remove shield requirement. Vauls tempering( i was thinking aethyric shock) used to be armour and disrupt buff, change it back to that! And Heaven's blade(it was phantoms blade) should be 25 % chance on using skill to get small absorb. I think it used to work like this.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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detrap
Posts: 352
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Re: SM Changes

Post#47 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:15 pm

Strakar wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:00 pm Since SM was pretty unanimously voted worst defensive tank in that other thread, would love to see more discussion on ideas suggested.

In seems like it always boils down to SM can do the most dps as a tank, which is still trivial compared to 6 other classes whose actual role is DPS, and WODS is the crutch against any 2h changes.
It is not the worst defensive tank, people just gear and spec it incorrectly or are dps 2h
Knight 8x - IB 8x - SM 8x / Chosen 3x - BO 4x - BG 5x

mekal
Posts: 208

Re: SM Changes

Post#48 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:34 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 pm Bleh just remove all morale pumps/drains and all cooldown reduction abilities as well. Single target cooldown increasers + Single target cast time increases would be much more fun. Interrupts would become more powerfull with 1.5 second cast time increaser like skills (on instant cast/melee abilities as well.
perhaps the best thing ever posted on these forums end game should be skilled gameplay not mindless button spam

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Strakar
Posts: 144

Re: SM Changes

Post#49 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:42 am

Someone posted SM changes in the balance proposal forum. I was lukewarm about the suggestions. What's like the top 3-5? This post had a lot of good ideas, and honestly I don't think the class needs a full rework, unless you do something radical like make it full time 2h for all builds.

I'd like to make 2h more useful.
1. Eagles flight 8-10 sec duration, lower bonus maybe to 20% if balance concerns.
2. Open up ST punt to 2h, like 25% chance on defense instead of block trigger.
3. Add some utility buff/debuff to PW.

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tazdingo
Posts: 1199

Re: SM Changes

Post#50 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:58 am

recently leveled an snb SM. it was bad

- remarkably squishier than any other def tank, i swear mara is tankier. poor choice of def tactics, low base toughness + no self buff. my knight feels like he can take 3x more dmg than my sm

- bad avoidance. eagles flight is a pain to keep up when you're trying to cycle in core non-builder abilities. perfect defenses is bad because unlike bo you can't sit in final stance when under pressure, you need to constantly cycle eagles flight & bubble

- vauls tempering remains a weird ability in a weird tree. the armour + block buff is competing with eagles flight for a precious gcd. st punt is difficult to use offensively due to block proc

i think changes could come in the form of tactics improving certain abilities as sm has a few borderline useless tactics that could be cannibalized

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