AM need 160 int tactic

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
User avatar
zulnam
Posts: 756

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#11 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:54 am

All classes get a "freebie" stat tactic that is a main stat boost to their role; exception being Ork greenskins who also get Wounds.

There have been arguments in the past to removing the "freebie" tactics. But adding more? That's a bold statement, as shown by the overwhelmingly negative replies you got i'm afraid.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

Ads
User avatar
adapter
Suspended
Posts: 420

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#12 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:16 am

Give 160 initiative too
Kabuchop / Kabusquig / Kabuterimon / Tentomon

User avatar
NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#13 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:47 am

adapter wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:16 am Give 160 initiative too

As shaman special ;)
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

Panodil
Posts: 337

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#14 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:38 am

980 str, yes i need tactic on dok to get cap.
Yeah both am/sham and dok/wp get crit tactic to compensate
Panodil WP
Panodill DoK
Panodilz Zealot
Panodilr Runepriest
Run Shaman
Panage Archmage

Mergrim
Posts: 238

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#15 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:17 am

Jusva321 wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:25 pm you got the 160 wilpower but if you want to be dps it is hard to get the intel why not give them a 160 int tactic ?
Great idea, but we need remove 25% dmg -20% heal tactic due all dps class dont have this tactic.

Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#16 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:21 am

+25% dmg. tactic is exactly to compensate for "low" init AM can get and 25% has much more effect on dmg than 160 int, especially when you get into high rr and min-max high level sets.

balvor877
Suspended
Posts: 278

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#17 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:46 am

NSKaneda wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:00 pm AM is a healer class, not dps. If you want +160Int roll BW, Sorc or Magus.
Well it kind of is, the worst healer in game at the moment. So, if you want them to play as healer then give them the tools to accomplish that. With greater risk there should be greater power. AMs have the greatest risk of all healers. No armor tactic, no auto detaunt tactic, no run away, no medium armor, nothing. It's just a squishy healer with a slow greater heal.

Your image proves nothing. It's just a hot ticking and that wont save anyone when a WE is on them. How good is your 600 crit hot every few seconds when the dps is doing much more damage per second and puts heal debuffs, knock down, etc. on top.

Ask any AM who rerolled WP. They love it and it is soo much easier to heal, you have greater tools and greater suvivability. So what's the point about healing AMs? They are forced to play dps because healing is the worst on AM.

btw: since Archmage is a "mage" class the willpower should have a higher impact on the healing output. Atm the willpower is pretty much useless on any healer. +100 willpower is like +20hp higher ticks on hots - in a game where dps classes (choppa, sorc, WEs ...) are hitting you for insane amounts.

User avatar
NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#18 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:01 pm

balvor877 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:46 am
NSKaneda wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:00 pm AM is a healer class, not dps. If you want +160Int roll BW, Sorc or Magus.
Well it kind of is, the worst healer in game at the moment. So, if you want them to play as healer then give them the tools to accomplish that. With greater risk there should be greater power. AMs have the greatest risk of all healers. No armor tactic, no auto detaunt tactic, no run away, no medium armor, nothing. It's just a squishy healer with a slow greater heal.

Your image proves nothing. It's just a hot ticking and that wont save anyone when a WE is on them. How good is your 600 crit hot every few seconds when the dps is doing much more damage per second and puts heal debuffs, knock down, etc. on top.

Ask any AM who rerolled WP. They love it and it is soo much easier to heal, you have greater tools and greater suvivability. So what's the point about healing AMs? They are forced to play dps because healing is the worst on AM.

btw: since Archmage is a "mage" class the willpower should have a higher impact on the healing output. Atm the willpower is pretty much useless on any healer. +100 willpower is like +20hp higher ticks on hots - in a game where dps classes (choppa, sorc, WEs ...) are hitting you for insane amounts.

My highest heal crit in rvr on AM was 3200. Highest on Shammie - 4550. Lambent aura ticks up to 980 on AM and up to 1800 on shammie (2800 with shrug it off + ain't done yet). More than enough to cover most of pressure enemy is putting on my team (and that's before any other healing spells).
The point of AM is that it's challenging and fun. The point of WP is that it is easy (and boring. But capable of great things when used by skilled player).

It's true that AMs were meant to weave spells, i.e. go heal -> dps -> heal. It's true that mechanic was nerfed by slowing it down significantly and made a lot easier for casual players by reducing the price one pays for a mistake. Easier, longer weaving doesn't mean it's not working - it just takes a lot, lot longer. One could make an argument that hybrid healing is impossible now with lifetaps not being able to crit but using both classes as pure heal/pure dps is as much a limiting mistake now as it has been 3 years ago. All of the old rotations work. Most of the old builds work, with an exception of siphon close quarters shammie and vampire bubble AM.

AM being "the worst healer" is exactly the same as shaman being "the worst healer" for destruction for many, many months - just because some people cannot utilize the class or try to play them as if it was more slender WP/DoK... What can I say, each class has it's flavour and should be played a little differently. When one forces the game to do something it wasn't meant to than the results are... mediocre at best. When you go hand in hand with what was intended results are astounding. You'll be amazed how much so. I am, that's for sure. Playing AM/Shammie as pure heal/pure dps is mediocre in my experience.


"So, if you want them to play as healer then give them the tools to accomplish that. With greater risk there should be greater power. AMs have the greatest risk of all healers. No armor tactic, no auto detaunt tactic, no run away, no medium armor, nothing. It's just a squishy healer with a slow greater heal." Of course AM has the greatest risk of all healers. It's the most challenging one to master. And it holds great power :D
Auto detaunt, run away - those tactics are for (solo) roaming. They are the first to go in warband setup. It's not an accident that absorb bubbles work better on AM than on shammie. And one could make an argument that 10% less chance to be defended against and extra spirit dmg (and ele resists, elves get 3 racials) are as good of a racial as armour (dwarves) or class-special medium armour (front line healers). Sure, one can build their shammie/AM to be front line. Not as good as DoK/WP, just like 2H tanks will never be as good dps as dedicated dps classes. Pardon me for doing captain Obvious but "slow greater heal" means one is not utilising class mechanic.

The image proves nothing - sure, unbuffed, no class mechanic to buff healing, no pots to further up heal values, out of combat mediocre tics. Still higher than 80% of what I'm seeing in the lakes on my other toons... That's full conq + 3 genesis + subjugator. Imagine tics value with invader (and sov) + anathema. Hint: 650hp+ non-crit and unbuffed. Worst healer, right.

Let me reiterate - AMs are not forced to go pure dps. That only means that one is using half of the class potential (same as going pure heal and complaining about clunky rotations and low heal output).

Willpower (as with other crucial stats) have stages if my observations are correct. Going over 600WP is the first stage. 700 second. 800 third and so on (there's not enough dmg in the lakes to go over 900 - and I've tested 1120WP at one point) - going from 610 to 690WP is not the same as going from 630 to 710. And healing crit has much, much bigger impact on healing output than willpower alone. In 1v1 I have to make a mistake for WE (or choppa) to kill me. If we are at the same gear level I have to make several mistakes.


"btw: since Archmage is a "mage" class the willpower should have a higher impact on the healing output." - the "mage" class means that, according to lore, elves can use both offensive and defensive spells and they're not limited to one path alone. By your logic playing Wizard or Magus should have greater impact on inteligence than other classes... Not very balanced now, is it?

If you look at the classes in game and how they are perceived by playerbase than those most challenging to master are the least popular ones. AM. IB. BG. Mara. WE&WH. "Old" SW and SH (rework has made them a lot easier to play). Even more challenging specs of magus and engie are less played because they require player to keep track of dot times and order in which they are applied before tics start to spike and one can use direct dmg skills to achieve massive aoe dmg. Not to mention that I haven't seen any weaving zealots and runnies since End Times of live and it's still possible to do in RoR...
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

Ads
CytheX
Posts: 105

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#19 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:54 pm

Change cCentury of Training from a fluf dot to an Initiative bonus.

balvor877
Suspended
Posts: 278

Re: AM need 160 int tactic

Post#20 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:30 pm

NSKaneda wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:01 pm My highest heal crit in rvr on AM was 3200. Highest on Shammie - 4550. Lambent aura ticks up to 980 on AM and up to 1800 on shammie (2800 with shrug it off + ain't done yet). More than enough to cover most of pressure enemy is putting on my team (and that's before any other healing spells).
980 on AM and 1800 / 2800 with shammie? Why is there such a difference?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Gangan and 14 guests