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Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

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Idrinth
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Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#1 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:13 pm

As everyone knows there are currently very few reasons across the board to spec a few attributes via talismans or renown. I propose the following to be added to make the less used attributes more interesting and increase the chance for them to be specced.
The following are meant to be tiny adjustments that do not change the whole way the game plays or morph it into something else and will fall short of making the mentioned attributes a must have. This is intended to prevent upsetting the game balance in a way that is hard to fix.

Initiative:
To make this attribute a bit more useful I propose adding both defensive and offensive utility to it:
+ chance to dogde (as current)
- chance to be crit (as current)
+ auto attack speed (+0.01%/Point)
+ movement speed (+0.01/Point)

Willpower:
This is currently a healers only attribute, even with the provided defences. I propose a generalistic bonus to make it more interesting;
+ chance to disrupt(as current)
+ heal(as current)
+ morale per second (+0.01/point)

Toughness:
The lack of strength in defence is the drawback here. I propose upping the effectiveness slightly to make it more desireable:
- damage(as current)
+ health (1/Point)
- recieved crit bonus damage (-0.025%/Point)

Wounds:
The way wounds currently work makes them relatively uninteresting in group play. I propose adding some tiny defensive utility to it to make it more useful there:
+ health (as current)
+ health per second (0.01/Point)
+ ap pool maximum (0.05/Point) rounded down

To see the effect, let's look at my diciple(R30) as an example:
Strength 478
Ballistic Skill 64
Intelligence 83
Toughness 240
Weapon Skill 308
Initiative 119
Willpower 181
Wounds 399

That will lead to:
+1,19 Movement Speed
+1,19% Auto Attack Speed
+1.81 Morale per second
+240 Health Points
-6% recieved crit damage bonus
+3,99 health per second
+3 max ap pool

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1889

Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#2 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:31 pm

jesus christ, no

Don't "fix" a stable system that is not broken.


You don't want tanks to be even more tanky, its absurd as it is now with 0ctbc +12k HP endgame geared tanks + rotating defensive debuffs.
my WE with 500 init would have permanent +5 movement speed, no, not needed
healers with 700-900 WP do not need to reach morales even faster, unless you want zealots to start M3 dropping below 30s into fight.
A bork with 1000 toughness and 11000 HP does not need to rise to 12000 HP - and would take even far less crit dmg, increasing time to kill through the roof and into the stratossphere.

If anything, TTK is already absurd high when you have a well playing team that knows how to play.

Sundowner
Posts: 384

Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#3 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:32 pm

Seems like an interesting idea, but as I am aware all classes skills/tactics/gear is balanced around stats as they now, giving them extra bonuses will need extensive testing and possibly adjustments to how skills/tactics/gear are, what stats and bonuses they give, etc. seems like too much work. maybe working with values init/willpower give will be more productive for making this stats viable than adding new bonuses to all stats

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Gurf
Posts: 520

Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#4 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:32 pm

Many of those would probably have far reaching and imbalancing affects.
Wounds change would make roaming regen tanks even more unkillable than they currently are
Willpower change would make Zealot OP as it could get M4 very quickly, probably others also who have existing morale pumps
Not sure potentially giving Goblins more movement speed is going to have a good affect on the game
The main affect of the changes would be to make Tanks harder to kill, is that even desired

Doing something to improve initiative could help though, as most people ignore it for Futile strikes

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MMXX43
Posts: 164

Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#5 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:49 pm

This would create a weird new power creep . I dont condone all of the proposals tho some stats could be modified a bit
" Though Justice be thy plea, consider this. That in the course of Justice none of us should see Salvation. We do pray for Mercy.." Братья, перестаньте играть в отступников

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Idrinth
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Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#6 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:57 pm

Sundowner wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:32 pm
Seems like an interesting idea, but as I am aware all classes skills/tactics/gear is balanced around stats as they now, giving them extra bonuses will need extensive testing and possibly adjustments to how skills/tactics/gear are, what stats and bonuses they give, etc. seems like too much work. maybe working with values init/willpower give will be more productive for making this stats viable than adding new bonuses to all stats
That's the reason why I kept the boni small - small steps towards some more interesting stat allocations :)
Aurandilaz wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:31 pm
You don't want tanks to be even more tanky, its absurd as it is now with 0ctbc +12k HP endgame geared tanks + rotating defensive debuffs.
my WE with 500 init would have permanent +5 movement speed, no, not needed
healers with 700-900 WP do not need to reach morales even faster, unless you want zealots to start M3 dropping below 30s into fight.
A bork with 1000 toughness and 11000 HP does not need to rise to 12000 HP - and would take even far less crit dmg, increasing time to kill through the roof and into the stratossphere.

If anything, TTK is already absurd high when you have a well playing team that knows how to play.
Yes TTk is high on well played teams, I fully agree. That is the case with or without gear - this small change will likely not affect them much if at all.
Regarding your example, BO would gain less than 10% more HP and reduce the BONUS DAMAGE from crits by 25%, that is a damage reduction of 12.5% for a dps with 100% critchance, less if lowe chance. Not a lot for a build that is borderline useless by overspeccing defences ;)
The morale bonus is in line with sets and actually pretty low - will likely just make healers reach their morales a single digit amount of seconds earlier. Remember the Morale drains and pushes add at least double digits, this one is in the low single digits. Would you have a better idea here?
Gurf wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:32 pm
Many of those would probably have far reaching and imbalancing affects.
Wounds change would make roaming regen tanks even more unkillable than they currently are
Willpower change would make Zealot OP as it could get M4 very quickly, probably others also who have existing morale pumps
Not sure potentially giving Goblins more movement speed is going to have a good affect on the game
The main affect of the changes would be to make Tanks harder to kill, is that even desired

Doing something to improve initiative could help though, as most people ignore it for Futile strikes
Since the affects are rather hard to forsee I kept the boni small. Which ones specifically seem risky to you? Just speed and morale?
The main effect would be increasing defence slightly across the board, yes. It makes hard to kill tanks about as hard to kill as they are now - for them the effects will be the least noticeable imho. They are overly defensive as it is and this would just make the fight last a few seconds longer- Makes punts to deal with them in groups more important, wich is in my opinion not a bad thing.

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Gurf
Posts: 520

Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#7 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:06 pm

Idrinth wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:57 pm
Gurf wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:32 pm
Many of those would probably have far reaching and imbalancing affects.
Wounds change would make roaming regen tanks even more unkillable than they currently are
Willpower change would make Zealot OP as it could get M4 very quickly, probably others also who have existing morale pumps
Not sure potentially giving Goblins more movement speed is going to have a good affect on the game
The main affect of the changes would be to make Tanks harder to kill, is that even desired

Doing something to improve initiative could help though, as most people ignore it for Futile strikes
Since the affects are rather hard to forsee I kept the boni small. Which ones specifically seem risky to you? Just speed and morale?
The main effect would be increasing defence slightly across the board, yes. It makes hard to kill tanks about as hard to kill as they are now - for them the effects will be the least noticeable imho. They are overly defensive as it is and this would just make the fight last a few seconds longer- Makes punts to deal with them in groups more important, wich is in my opinion not a bad thing.

I don't really like any of them. Reducing crit damage is going to affect BW and Sorc more than other classes as they rely on Crit, both classes don't need a nerf.
Speed increase is always incredibly powerful, as on Live every healer had to slot Odjira talisman in their boots from LOTD for speed increase as it provided so much kiting ability, so it would be an essential thing to stack above anything else if it was introduced.
Also I don't think tanks need such survivability buffs, especially 2 handed tanks.
About the only thing that could work in my view is having initiative increase auto attack damage

Whyumadbro
Posts: 159

Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#8 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:24 pm

The ideas are very interesting, but no the the movement speed buff! everything else seems interesting

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wachlarz
Posts: 549

Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#9 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:33 pm

For Me somthing is wrony with crit chance. I got fs3 and in my combat log see a bit too many crit. U spend a lot rr into this, and i see 10 hits and 5 are crit.

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Idrinth
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Re: Rebalancing Attributes: A chance for more diversity

Post#10 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:49 pm

wachlarz wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:33 pm
For Me somthing is wrony with crit chance. I got fs3 and in my combat log see a bit too many crit. U spend a lot rr into this, and i see 10 hits and 5 are crit.
People can also spend on crit chance and get 30% or so on average added on to your chance to be crit. Not unexpected that you still see crits

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